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Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

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Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#121
post #110

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ActiveX. Don't ever let yourself forget ActiveX.

XMLHTTP was originally an ActiveX technology, though, from the Outlook team; it wasn't originally developed as part of IE. I guess it wasn't until Mozilla and Apple added a native version that it really took off.

Actually KHTML and Safari supported it earlier, MozillaSuite/Firefox initial support was broken and only when it was fixed in Firefox around 2004 it got tradtion among devs.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#122

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My prediction is that they'll continue to work on the recently announced "Windows Subsystem for Linux"[1] and attempt to cover a larger and larger portion of the Linux ABI. If people can develop, and run the majority of Linux programs on Windows, and those programs are competitive in performance, and those programs have MS support backing, then they have a huge win in the enterprise space. Personally, I'm happy to ke…

I think this is an amazing move for Microsoft. If they get the kinks worked out and get it working well on Windows Server, they'll have one platform that can run pretty much all the major enterprise software without virtualization. That's great; it's a way for Linux shops to convert to Windows Server without having to fully commit right away, because they'll still be able to quite easily run their existing stack and…

Why is that good though; why would Linux shops want to convert? In the space I work in companies (including enterprises) like the fact they can do whatever with the source code and that they can audit whatever part they want. MS has that too but not for many clients and you cannot do whatever with it. The freedom in Linux means a lot to a lot of people even if you maybe could get a bit more perf or support from a paid platform. We have people working with VS (a few only) and because of our tooling it works smoothly anyway. I have no clue why you would switch to something paid and closed...

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They intentionally tried to destroy the web What are you referring to?

TL;DR Microsoft tried to leverage its desktop monopoly to become a browser monopoly to a server monopoly and thus own and tax and sanitize the early web, we wuz saved by Firefox. The web freedoms we are losing today were hard won. Back when browser choice was NCSA Mosaic or Netscape , Microsoft was ignoring the web as a fad - Gates thought little of it then - sounds crazy now but in the early 90's, before access was…

Good summary. Thanks.

Yeah, I often see on HN (what are presume are younger developers) who never lived in a world were OSes, languages, frameworks, toolkits were not free. Everything cost a pretty penny. Open source software en-large would have been such an alien concept telling people it was going to be the future, they'd think it was crazy talk. Now it is taken for granted ... too much for granted perhaps. And they love to hate GPL and make fun of Stallman and how if someone releases GPLed software they are being anachronistic and hostile and it is hurting their Uber for Dogs startup and so on.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#125

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They intentionally tried to destroy the web, because it didn't suit their monopoly. That rage was well and truly earned by Microsoft.

And the Web survived, and eventually became the mess we all know and love today. Usability standards have dropped a lot for everyone who doesn't own a Mac, compared to Windows in the late 90's and early 2000's. Back then, at least the trains ran on time...

The web's survival was far from certain, other similar more proprietry instances didn't - many would argue freedom was the webs USP.

Ubuntu & Debian improved my interfaces.

I cannot in good conscience support a walled garden or advocate its use knowing how important freedom is.

;) In the UK the trains have never run on time.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#126
post #72
post #63

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I begrudgingly watch these games, and I hate all the ooohhhs and aahhhs at stupid Microsoft integrations with Linux. But this too shall pass. If Microsoft was to put out a free version of Windows say Windows Developer Edition, I would happily dual boot to it. That's my #1 gripe with Windows their shit licensing schemes and activations. Other than that, this does not make me happy. All this embrace extend extinguish i…

That's a beautiful lawn you got there.

It is a common's green, everyone can freely picnic there.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the Web survived, and eventually became the mess we all know and love today. Usability standards have dropped a lot for everyone who doesn't own a Mac, compared to Windows in the late 90's and early 2000's. Back then, at least the trains ran on time...

The web's survival was far from certain, other similar more proprietry instances didn't - many would argue freedom was the webs USP. Ubuntu & Debian improved my interfaces. I cannot in good conscience support a walled garden or advocate its use knowing how important freedom is. ;) In the UK the trains have never run on time.

> The web's survival was far from certain

I didn't say it was certain in 2000.

> Ubuntu & Debian improved my interfaces.

Certainly, GNU/Linux has come a long way in terms of usability. I'm a very happy user of a GNU/Linux system nowadays (Arch Linux). But I wasn't really comparing Windows and GNU/Linux. I was comparing Windows and Web applications. IMO, Web applications in 2016 are still significantly less usable than Windows applications were in 2000. In fact, the more “modern” a website is, the least usable I'm likely to find it.

> I cannot in good conscience support a walled garden or advocate its use knowing how important freedom is.

I value civilized freedom (GNU/Linux on the desktop), not the law of the jungle (the Web).

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Let's face it, the competition between Windows and Web applications was actually between business models. Between users paying for software, and filling the screen with ads and “sponsored content”. Given these two alternatives, I'd gladly pick the first. Freedom has nothing to do with it.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web's survival was far from certain, other similar more proprietry instances didn't - many would argue freedom was the webs USP. Ubuntu & Debian improved my interfaces. I cannot in good conscience support a walled garden or advocate its use knowing how important freedom is. ;) In the UK the trains have never run on time.

> The web's survival was far from certain I didn't say it was certain in 2000. > Ubuntu & Debian improved my interfaces. Certainly, GNU/Linux has come a long way in terms of usability. I'm a very happy user of a GNU/Linux system nowadays (Arch Linux). But I wasn't really comparing Windows and GNU/Linux. I was comparing Windows and Web applications. IMO, Web applications in 2016 are still significantly less usable tha…

Your clarifications make sense and I agree.

By walled garden I thought you were advocating Apple, I see I was mistaken.

I too support the freedom to be civilized and not subject to laws red in tooth and claw.

Yet diversity is important and so I also support there being freer places where new types of organisation can arise free from the old order - places like the Web.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#129
post #82
post #52

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My first UNIX, a couple of years before GNU/Linux was even a thing.

Cool. My first Unix was some PC-based clone, the name of which I cannot remember now, but was also a while before Linux. Not sure whether it was before Xenix or not, though I used Xenix (SCO Xenix at the time, IIRC, or was it SCO Unix) a year or so later. First Unix's name may have started with E-something. Everex? Not sure. I think I also got to use Interactive Systems' PC Unix (PC-IX?) around the same time as the f…

Thanks for sharing.

I did Xenix, DG/UX, Aix, got my first Linux distribution in the form of Slackware 2.0.

Tried to get Coherent before, but could not afford it.

Afterwards Red-Hat, Mandrake and SuSE were my favourite ones until I ended up with Ubuntu.

At work I also got to use Solaris and HP-UX.

My first experience with containers was with HP-UX vaults.

However I never managed to leave the worlds of Amiga, Windows and BeOS behind. Specially in terms of Demoscene, IDEs culture, graphics and game coding.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#130
post #113
post #87

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> Their fundamental problem is (which they realize pretty well i seems) that they have lost developer's mind share. .NET may be a fine ecosystem and C# may be a great language but in all practical senses it is Windows-only. All these Mono/open source CLR games are not even the slightest blip on the radar for a practical day-to-day backend operations running cross platform (which is mostly Linux, but Windows as well).…

> but when you look at all the developers who were willing to hop on board the Go train with no supporting infrastructure I think that speaks more towards engineers that like shiny new things that do something in particular in a new way which then help drum up excitement and an ecosystem around it. C# is a very good language, but there's nothing new or shiny about it now. The tools and ecosystem around it are well es…

You know, people say that Windows is a fine operating system, but I find it constantly annoying and terribly inefficient. Maybe it because I know there are other, better things, or maybe it's because I use it "incorrectly". As a desktop OS the GUI constantly annoys me with tiny little cuts; you can't manipulate file names properly as it disallows names starting with a period (among other things), the UI is terribly inconsistent, the console(s) don't interact with the mouse well, etc. I know they are small things, but they really add up to some serious frustration with the OS as a whole.

As a server OS it's not much better. I can't find a way to force a NTP sync; things that should be simple (creating a service with logon rights) takes 10's of lines of PowerShell; you can't use SSL with the core image because it requires IE, which is not included in the core image. Its full of little surprises which make it difficult to understand (.../windows32 == 64bit, .../SysWOW64 == 32bit). It takes 10 minutes to fully boot a Windows instance in AWS, which is mostly the result of how large it is, and the fact that it has to recompile its DCOM DLLs (or some such thing).

I know that no OS is perfect, but Windows has had years and years to mature and a company with billions of $$$ and thousands of developers behind it. I expect more.

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