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Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

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Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#111
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current iteration of Windows 10 tries to abstract away hardware under a higher level "Windows" layer and mostly get rid of variation between windows for embedded, mobile, and Intel platforms. With the new Bash/Ubuntu feature, I think Windows is moving on to abstract away the operating system. My wild-ass prediction for a Microsoft Linux distribution is one in which Microsoft Windows replaces X-windows. Wayland is…

What would they gain though? NT is a pretty good kernel with very broad hardware support. If anything, they'd just make NT fully POSIX-compliant. They'd get the same benefit with a fraction of the effort of porting Windows-the-GUI to Linux.

> If anything, they'd just make NT fully POSIX-compliant.

They did this with the POSIX subsystem, and the ability to do this was in mind very early in NT history. They ripped it out in Windows 8, IIRC. I guess it's back.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#112
post #82
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first UNIX, a couple of years before GNU/Linux was even a thing.

Cool. My first Unix was some PC-based clone, the name of which I cannot remember now, but was also a while before Linux. Not sure whether it was before Xenix or not, though I used Xenix (SCO Xenix at the time, IIRC, or was it SCO Unix) a year or so later. First Unix's name may have started with E-something. Everex? Not sure. I think I also got to use Interactive Systems' PC Unix (PC-IX?) around the same time as the f…

"Santa Cruz Operation" yup, that brings back memories...

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#113
post #87
post #54

I highly doubt these Linux games will amount to much for Microsoft, but it's fun to watch. Their fundamental problem is (which they realize pretty well i seems) that they have lost developer's mind share. .NET may be a fine ecosystem and C# may be a great language but in all practical senses it is Windows-only. All these Mono/open source CLR games are not even the slightest blip on the radar for a practical day-to-da…

> Their fundamental problem is (which they realize pretty well i seems) that they have lost developer's mind share. .NET may be a fine ecosystem and C# may be a great language but in all practical senses it is Windows-only. All these Mono/open source CLR games are not even the slightest blip on the radar for a practical day-to-day backend operations running cross platform (which is mostly Linux, but Windows as well).…

> but when you look at all the developers who were willing to hop on board the Go train with no supporting infrastructure

I think that speaks more towards engineers that like shiny new things that do something in particular in a new way which then help drum up excitement and an ecosystem around it.

C# is a very good language, but there's nothing new or shiny about it now. The tools and ecosystem around it are well established and managed by Microsoft and often involve spending some money.

The excitement for new things like Go, Rust or Julia etc are really not a signal for new support for C#. I think if anything Microsoft should continue their new support for llvm[0]. Windows is a fine operating system, I'd like to use it to do development and the closer I can get to developing things that then run on linux the easier my life will get and the more likely it will be that devs use Windows.

[0] https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2015/12/04/clang-wit...

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the destructive legacies of Internet Explorer. Many web developers (including myself) got fed up with IE, and that rage transferred onto Microsoft.

They intentionally tried to destroy the web, because it didn't suit their monopoly. That rage was well and truly earned by Microsoft.

And the Web survived, and eventually became the mess we all know and love today. Usability standards have dropped a lot for everyone who doesn't own a Mac, compared to Windows in the late 90's and early 2000's. Back then, at least the trains ran on time...

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#115
Sorry to be such a buzzkill, but even former oracle devs have told me software goes to oracle to die. Excuse me if I dont care that horrible company a got a guy from slightly less horrible company b because of his knowledge in a field company b wants to embrace only because they are recognizing it is much more of a threat than ever before (largely because of their failures in the first place). So while everyone is drinking the "ms is open sourcing everything" coolaid, I'm still sipping on "lessons from the 90s tea".

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#116
post #77
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I begrudgingly watch these games, and I hate all the ooohhhs and aahhhs at stupid Microsoft integrations with Linux. But this too shall pass. If Microsoft was to put out a free version of Windows say Windows Developer Edition, I would happily dual boot to it. That's my #1 gripe with Windows their shit licensing schemes and activations. Other than that, this does not make me happy. All this embrace extend extinguish i…

Frankenstein OS (Linux + Windows) is going to break every dev tool chain you can think of. I don't see how anyone in their right mind would think Frankenstein OS is a good dev platform. I guess if you don't mind having an unstable system and enjoy searching google for "how to get xyz to work in bash windows linux" and finding absolutely no answers on stackoverflow then Frankenstein OS is good for you. If you want to…

>Frankenstein OS (Linux + Windows) is going to break every dev tool chain you can think of. I don't see how anyone in their right mind would think Frankenstein OS is a good dev platform.

It's a binary-identical linux userspace, and it (appears as if it) has the same linux kernel. There will be some rare edge cases (see: mounting a case-sensitive POSIX filesystem on top of the case-preserving NTFS) but aside from that i envisage lxcore.sys being extremely compatible. Certainly a better dev platform than my current cygwin/windows/samba/debian-in-hyper-v setup for mixed OS development.

Why do you think things will break?

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They intentionally tried to destroy the web, because it didn't suit their monopoly. That rage was well and truly earned by Microsoft.

> They intentionally tried to destroy the web What are you referring to?

TL;DR Microsoft tried to leverage its desktop monopoly to become a browser monopoly to a server monopoly and thus own and tax and sanitize the early web, we wuz saved by Firefox.

The web freedoms we are losing today were hard won.

Back when browser choice was NCSA Mosaic or Netscape , Microsoft was ignoring the web as a fad - Gates thought little of it then - sounds crazy now but in the early 90's, before access was readily available outside Universities, BBS was dominant for the public.

The web was small then: registering a domain was altering a text file (no cost); SPAM didn't exist, every email was answered; all very university nice nice; ecommerce wasn't a thing.

Microsoft 'awoke' to the webs potential and gave away Internet Explorer for free ( Netscape's browser cost money to buy unless you used the latest beta ) - this is what the antitrust case of win95 was about - Microsoft leveraging it's monopoly ( no Linux back then ) to aquire browser share.

Why was this seen as a problem ?

Because of Microsoft's strategy of embrace , extend , extinguish.

It was feared Microsoft browsers would only talk 'properly' to Microsoft servers ( the server market was the 'big' money ) - thus Microsoft would dictate the web rather than Berners-Lee's democratic W3C.

Everone else would be shut out of spec by dint of Microsoft end user browser monopoly leveraged from it's Desktop monopoly.

This would certainly have slowed adoption as every site and every server would have to pay Microsoft's large costs - 1 server per site then so the Microsoft tax was then ~$2000, recurring, per site.

Then only way to compete with the behometh of Microsoft's developers & emerging browser monopoly was the Free (GPL) development model - Netscape gave away their whole browser business to the public domain, inspired by Eric Raymond's analysis of the power of the public domain to attract developers - "The Cathedral and the Bazaar".

Raymond argued that ensuring developer contributions couldn't be locked away by proprietry companies would attract developers. This had happened before with UNIX, necessitating GNU & LINUX.

The GPL, the Free software license of Richard Stallman's GNU toolchain, adopted by Torvalds for LINUX, was the model for a public domain that avoided the 'tragedy of the commons'.

The GPL ensured the 4 freedoms remained intact on downstream contributions.

Free GNU software meant basically: if you improve public code, you must give the source code of improvements back to the public domain.

Free Firefox ( in freedom & price ) coupled with the LINUX kernel (or BSD) and the GNU toolchain provided a Free server OS. With A Patchy Server ( renamed Apache ) this provided a way for the web to grow unencumbered.

They had to dilute Free by calling it Open Source as some business types feared Free (as in beer) & Freedom - but it was Stallman's GPL in all but name.

Imagine a building filled with floors of rackservers , if every server, every OS was forced to pay Microsoft rates - and perhaps also be content Microsoft didn't disapprove of.

Microsoft licenses in a Monopoly market - the web would have been strangled at birth.

Only for the wealthy and approvable - basically Encarterised.

Lillywhite rather than everything and everyone.

So the GNU toolchain and license, and LINUX kernel and (GPLed) Apache server meant that building of servers could be had for the price of traing staff - zero cost of entry, everyone gets to play.

A server farm could be set up by a devotee in a cupboard for zero cost rather than ~$2000 per site, ~yearly to Microsoft.

This is why Stallman is the granfather of all our freedoms.

He saw UNIX stolen and LISP crushed by and invented GNU Free toolchain early enough (80's) to have it useable to write the LINUX kernel and be a complete Operating System by the 90's.

The truth of the crappiness of the Microsoft web vision became the nightmare of late 90's early 00's web devs having to write for IE6 bizzaro HTML.

Yes the W3C became stagnant later and Mozilla support of legacy httprequest allowed modern web to AJAX, etc, HTML5 blah, etc, continual revolution.

Early public web culture was very BBS anarcho, democractic rules not central power - the public had after all built a functional web and email system without oversight or control - distrubuted over phone lines in the 1980's (q.v. FIDONet & BBS) before the gov & universities 'shared' TCP/IP. All early non-uni ISP's were BBS's.

Arguably the tie-down of broadband and 'mistrust thy neighbours surfing' crushed sharing access & many early freedoms & the anonimity of temporary copper dialup net & webbery ( crypto was an illegal munition then ).

If the web had failed, then we would be living in an info desert like the 1980s, where most people relied on newspapers & official propaganda was absolute.

Without the web Rupert Murdoch would now be absolute kingmaker and dissent to the big lies of authority would be absent without the blogosphere.

The freedoms we are losing today were hard won.

[ * ] sources, my greybeard.

[ ] references :

Jason's Scott's BBS documentary ep4 FIDONet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cm6EFYktRQ

"Revolution OS" - rise of Open Source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw8K460vx1c

Yes Bill Gates is super nice now but he was ruthless to get there.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#118
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a rehash of Windows Services for Unix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX What's different this time? My prediction is that it'll languish in obscurity, rarely used, and eventually be discontinued.

> What's different this time? Running 64bit Linux elf binaries on the NT kernel, side-by-side with windows binaries is quite different from WSUS -- at least what experience I had with WSUS. It's more like Wine (a port of the win32 api to Linux (and BSD/OS X?) that allows running unmodified windows executables on Linux. Being able to "apt install redis" on windows, and get the redis-build that Ubuntu ships, and be abl…

WSUS is (conventionally) something different when talking about Microsoft - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_Update_Services - whereas you clearly mean ${whatever Interix ended up renamed to}.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#120
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle has a few extra patches in their kernel. They also created bttrfs. Maybe also other things.

If you use their "Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel", it's actually a totally different (and much newer) kernel version than the one that ships with the equivalent RHEL release. Interestingly, they also provide it across OEL versions, so you can use the more modern kernel with the horribly outdated RHEL userland of your choice. For instance, UEK R4 is based on the 4.1.12 Linux kernel. RHEL 7 ships with 3.10.0. It still m…

the last time I tried OEL with "their" kernel, the system wouldn't boot
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