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Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

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Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#71

Post by Scarbutt »

MichaelGG wrote: post #56
diebir wrote: post #54

I highly doubt these Linux games will amount to much for Microsoft, but it's fun to watch. Their fundamental problem is (which they realize pretty well i seems) that they have lost developer's mind share. .NET may be a fine ecosystem and C# may be a great language but in all practical senses it is Windows-only. All these Mono/open source CLR games are not even the slightest blip on the radar for a practical day-to-da…

With MS supporting CLR on Linux, I don't see what the problem is. They now have a limited IDE and runtime support for cross-platform. FWIW I've used Mono in production on Linux in telecom, and it's handled many billions of messages over the years. With F# nonetheless. Apart from a few rare issues here and there it's been a great experience.

IMO the point still stands, in general it will be years before the CLR and .NET native is considered a serious alternative to Java/JVM on linux, although microsoft is doing a great effort, so who knows how long real adoption will take, I guess it can get closer to Golang, adoption wise, than to Java, the introduction of Swift is not going to make it easier for them either.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#72

Post by m_fayer »

x5n1 wrote: post #63
diebir wrote: post #54

I highly doubt these Linux games will amount to much for Microsoft, but it's fun to watch. Their fundamental problem is (which they realize pretty well i seems) that they have lost developer's mind share. .NET may be a fine ecosystem and C# may be a great language but in all practical senses it is Windows-only. All these Mono/open source CLR games are not even the slightest blip on the radar for a practical day-to-da…

I begrudgingly watch these games, and I hate all the ooohhhs and aahhhs at stupid Microsoft integrations with Linux. But this too shall pass. If Microsoft was to put out a free version of Windows say Windows Developer Edition, I would happily dual boot to it. That's my #1 gripe with Windows their shit licensing schemes and activations. Other than that, this does not make me happy. All this embrace extend extinguish i…

That's a beautiful lawn you got there.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#73

Post by justinlardinois »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #69
dantiberian wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the destructive legacies of Internet Explorer. Many web developers (including myself) got fed up with IE, and that rage transferred onto Microsoft.

They intentionally tried to destroy the web, because it didn't suit their monopoly. That rage was well and truly earned by Microsoft.

> They intentionally tried to destroy the web

What are you referring to?

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#74

Post by oblio »

justinlardinois wrote: post #73
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They intentionally tried to destroy the web, because it didn't suit their monopoly. That rage was well and truly earned by Microsoft.

> They intentionally tried to destroy the web What are you referring to?

The web as envisioned early on by Netscape was supposed to have apps much sooner than it did. Once Microsoft swept aside Netscape by killing their business it basically froze development on IE.

They made one mistake: XMLHttpRequest (probably the last big feature added to IE before the freeze) and we got lucky with Firefox.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#75

Post by skuhn »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #64
e12e wrote: post #47

What I'm curious about: Isn't Oracle Linux mostly a joke of a copy-cat distribution? Apart from them acquiring Ksplice and possibly delaying ksplice-like functionality in SuSe and RedHat a couple of years, isn't Oracle Linux mostly just an excuse to drain Oracle users for OS license money for those that don't want to be constrained by limited hardware support in Solaris? I guess what I'm asking, why would Microsoft w…

Oracle has a few extra patches in their kernel. They also created bttrfs. Maybe also other things.

If you use their "Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel", it's actually a totally different (and much newer) kernel version than the one that ships with the equivalent RHEL release. Interestingly, they also provide it across OEL versions, so you can use the more modern kernel with the horribly outdated RHEL userland of your choice.

For instance, UEK R4 is based on the 4.1.12 Linux kernel. RHEL 7 ships with 3.10.0.

It still makes me nauseous to deal with Oracle, but providing support for a relatively modern kernel release is a step in the right direction. Now if they could shorten RHEL's time between major releases and get them out on a consistent timeframe, that would be another big step in the right direction. Of course then you're practically shipping Ubuntu.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#76

Post by zxcvcxz »

MichaelGG wrote: post #56
diebir wrote: post #54

I highly doubt these Linux games will amount to much for Microsoft, but it's fun to watch. Their fundamental problem is (which they realize pretty well i seems) that they have lost developer's mind share. .NET may be a fine ecosystem and C# may be a great language but in all practical senses it is Windows-only. All these Mono/open source CLR games are not even the slightest blip on the radar for a practical day-to-da…

With MS supporting CLR on Linux, I don't see what the problem is. They now have a limited IDE and runtime support for cross-platform. FWIW I've used Mono in production on Linux in telecom, and it's handled many billions of messages over the years. With F# nonetheless. Apart from a few rare issues here and there it's been a great experience.

>limited IDE and runtime support

Key word: limited

I don't believe MS will ever fully support Linux 100%. They will always make their software tooling more compatible with their OS even though they have the ability to create software for Linux that is on par with the Windows counterparts.

Microsoft purposely leaves their "cross-platform" software gimped out so that anyone who does decide to take up .NET on Linux will eventually want to switch to Windows because Microsofts support for Linux is half assed.

Hopefully most people can see through the obvious MS shilling that's been going on lately.

Some people seem to believe the "new bash" coming to windows is somehow a game changer and that this means they no longer need Linux. Please. Setting up any serious development process in this Frankenstein OS is going to be a nightmare and it's going to break every tool chain conceivable.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#77

Post by zxcvcxz »

x5n1 wrote: post #63
diebir wrote: post #54

I highly doubt these Linux games will amount to much for Microsoft, but it's fun to watch. Their fundamental problem is (which they realize pretty well i seems) that they have lost developer's mind share. .NET may be a fine ecosystem and C# may be a great language but in all practical senses it is Windows-only. All these Mono/open source CLR games are not even the slightest blip on the radar for a practical day-to-da…

I begrudgingly watch these games, and I hate all the ooohhhs and aahhhs at stupid Microsoft integrations with Linux. But this too shall pass. If Microsoft was to put out a free version of Windows say Windows Developer Edition, I would happily dual boot to it. That's my #1 gripe with Windows their shit licensing schemes and activations. Other than that, this does not make me happy. All this embrace extend extinguish i…

Frankenstein OS (Linux + Windows) is going to break every dev tool chain you can think of. I don't see how anyone in their right mind would think Frankenstein OS is a good dev platform.

I guess if you don't mind having an unstable system and enjoy searching google for "how to get xyz to work in bash windows linux" and finding absolutely no answers on stackoverflow then Frankenstein OS is good for you. If you want to find and squash completely new types of bugs that you aren't use to dealing with, then use Frankenstein OS.

For those of us who just want a system that works and is reliable then we should stay away from Frankenstein OS.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#78

Post by UK-AL »

mlvljr wrote: post #41
Karunamon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall reading somewhere (can't find it for beans now) that the Windows kernel was a huge mess codewise since many of the original developers have moved on and poor to nonexistent documentation was left, meaning that the modern employees had to basically reverse engineer a lot of the code. Take this with a grain of salt, of course.

Here are some comments from the times of the source code leak: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 I'd say, the user experience has improved since then overall (meaning the code quality, too, in one of the most practical senses).

Somebody did an actual anaysis of that leak, and the code was considered high quality overall.

You get dodgy comments in the Linux kernel to.

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#79

Post by [deleted] »

mlvljr wrote: post #41
Karunamon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall reading somewhere (can't find it for beans now) that the Windows kernel was a huge mess codewise since many of the original developers have moved on and poor to nonexistent documentation was left, meaning that the modern employees had to basically reverse engineer a lot of the code. Take this with a grain of salt, of course.

Here are some comments from the times of the source code leak: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 I'd say, the user experience has improved since then overall (meaning the code quality, too, in one of the most practical senses).

[deleted]

Re: Head of Oracle Linux Moves to Microsoft

#80

Post by feld »

oscargrouch wrote: post #67

Im just imagining the Linus smile nowadays. This is a really impressive achievement comparing with the Microsoft and the Linux of the nineties. I remember creating dial-up internet provider in the nineties using Linux, and all the prejudice the IT people have towards it. "Eww, you are using Linux? here.. i have a Solaris for you" or : "Why dont you just use NT 4?"

Well Solaris has always been a technically superior OS, but the userland was unfriendly compared to Linux.
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