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Fuck Nuance [pdf]

kieranhealy.org

51–60 of 71 posts

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#51
post #31

I call this the "abstraction paradox". There is no way that an abstraction can fully equate what it abstracts. "Apple" could never equal a real apple. But abstraction allows us to think about real apples. In science, all theories and models are abstractions. Hence, they are always approximations, and can be invalidated or nullified with edge cases that can indeed be backed by evidence. But the opposite is also true.…

>Otherwise, frankly, academics arguing over what has no consequence will have no consequence outside the circles of those who argue over it.

Sociology is mostly a series of status games played by academics. It's part of the humanities, which means the methods of play are peer group signalling and persuasive story-telling, not reality testing.

It's not engineering, where models actually have to predict reality with at least a minimal baseline of accuracy and reliability.

Engineers don't have a problem with nuance, and are suspicious of toy models that don't include details - because they're just not useful.

If you model flight characteristics for an airliner but don't deal with edge cases, the plane can fall out of the sky.

If you offer a grand social theory of X but get the details wrong, no one really cares, because sociologists have very little influence on practical policy, and the influence they do have is carefully chosen for political applicability by non-sociologists.

Occasionally useful insights fall out of social psychology and sociology. But they have limited applicability because our understanding of social psychology is pre-Newtonian - some things seem to work, but no one is really sure why - and our understanding of politics and economics is barbaric and barely better than medieval, on a good day.

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#52
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you exclude economics? I see economics as practically leading the way with regard to dismissals like you suggest. One example I have first-hand experience with is the low-volatility anomaly. CAPM-like theories predict a roughly linear, positive-sloping relationship between risk and return. Yet decades worth of various empirical measurements of the riskiness of assets and portfolios unequivocally demonstrates t…

>t would be reasonable to say that CAPM is a mathematical result, and the evidence suggests the mathematical model required for CAPM simply fails to correspond to reality. But many finance folks, especially in academia, won't admit it. In other words, "Things are more complicated in real markets". I don't see any problem with wanting descriptive theories. Economists are interested in building models whose parameters…

So you're saying that we need wrong theories that can guide policymakers in the right direction? That sounds like a bad idea. It's basically "I want you to do this thing. Let me invent a theory that makes me sound more persuasive. Don't worry about the details!"

Yes, we need theories that are easy enough to reason about that they provide useful insight, but I don't think this is even close to being too complicated.

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#53
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abstractions need not be approximations. Schroedinger's equation is an abstraction, but as far as we know it's exact.

What is Schroedinger's equation an abstraction of? What details does it abstract from? How can it be that the omission of those details does not result in an inexact representation of the unabstracted, more complete, situation? BTW, there are no exact solutions to the Schroedinger equation of most interesting systems: we only get numerical approximations to the values of interest from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartree%E2%80%93Fock_method

Some of those numerical solutions were really important historically and lead to the further development of numerical techniques.

Back to main thread: I'm thinking of Lakatos' Proofs and Refutations, itself a play on Popper's Conjectures and Refutations, designed itself to escape from 'induction' based thinking, e.g. Hans Reichenbach

Long time since I've thought of those, thanks.

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#54
post #31

I call this the "abstraction paradox". There is no way that an abstraction can fully equate what it abstracts. "Apple" could never equal a real apple. But abstraction allows us to think about real apples. In science, all theories and models are abstractions. Hence, they are always approximations, and can be invalidated or nullified with edge cases that can indeed be backed by evidence. But the opposite is also true.…

I see this problem as such: sciences beyond physics have phenomenon dependent on many more variables, many of which are unknown

On Physics, beyond the obvious, the rest can be derided as noise (you won't have an exact measure of anything, sometimes this is a new phenomenon yet to be discovered, or something known but overlooked in this situation, but usually "noise")

Now when you depend on more variables, your first guess might only predict the result 60% of the time (as an example). Better than random choice, but still has a low predictability. Then you add more "obvious" variables and can result in, 80% prediction, which is good, but not as good as you can get with physics.

This can be social sciences or even something more hard as biology or medicine.

In the end it's an issue of overfitting/underfitting

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#55
post #41

This article is a truly fantastic critique of how modern social sciences (besides economics) are carried out and publicized in modern society. Any critique one dislikes - typically "your theory predicts X which is false" - can be dismissed by "nuance", "things are more complicated", "that's different in unspecified way", etc. In statistical terms, these dismissals are little more than a call for overfitting - if I ca…

It is a fantastic article, but I don't think excessive, obsessive nuance is what plagues most people here. In any event, don't take it too far. In dynamical system, your theory can be simple and predict observation 100% yet be completely wrong -- not just a little wrong -- and fail to model any of the actual dynamics (e.g. x = 0 and x = t are both completely predictive, yet entirely false, models of x" = 0). It is th…

In any event, don't take it too far. In dynamical system, your theory can be simple and predict observation 100% yet be completely wrong -- not just a little wrong -- and fail to model any of the actual dynamics (e.g. x = 0 and x = t are both completely predictive, yet entirely false, models of x" = 0). It is those simplified theories that are no more than empirical observation, and suffer from another kind of overfitting.

No, this is not overfitting at all. This is failing to fit the data. Based on your true model of x''=0, x=0.5t and x=-t are also valid data sets which can be observed but which are not predicted.

And one thing is certain: the less you know, the far more likely it is that you'll err on the side of over-simplification than over-nuance.

When this is the case, there is only one valid response: "your theory predicts X but experiment shows Y."

"You don't have enough expertise", "you haven't been hazed with years of study", "you are an amateur", etc, are simply ad hominem attacks. So is blaming scientists with simple theories for "atrocities".

The fact is that lots of highly successful social theories have very few variables - supply&demand, EMH, psychometrics (g) are all great examples. They make testable predictions which accurately predict the world. Lack of nuance only becomes an issue when you want to go from 85% to 95% accurate.

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#56
post #40
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abstractions need not be approximations. Schroedinger's equation is an abstraction, but as far as we know it's exact.

The moment the theory is the reality, it's exact. Like cartoons. Like definitions. Like math. But physics and science is about reality. It's about the physical apple, not the word apple. A real apple is physical. There is no amount of theory or symbolism that will produce a real apple in the minds and systems that simulate it. That's the paradox.

>A real apple is physical. There is no amount of theory or symbolism that will produce a real apple in the minds and systems that simulate it. That's the paradox.

Actually, I see two problems with this notion.

First, there's no "paradox". That "no amount or theory or symbolism will produce a real apple" is not paradoxical. If anything, it's common sense.

Second, this common sense might very well be wrong (and that would be a real paradox this time).

In fact, what you call "real apple" might itself be a simulation (along with all the universe we know) -- created by higher order beings.

Still, you might say, our theories, us being inhabitants of the (simulated) universe, won't produce a real apple for us.

But who's to say that? It depends on the rules of the simulated universe. And we can't say with 100% certainty we know the rules of ours (if it's one such).

E.g. the rules could very well allow the thoughts and symbolism of its inhabitants to create new objects in the universe.

In that sense, the universe would be like Lisp (where data are code), or like using "reflection".

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#57
post #4

I realized as I was reading this that I know very little about sociology as a discipline. In particular, I'm unaware of any of its "Great Theories", a la General Relativity for physics, or Darwinian Evolution for biology. Any candidates? I'm not trying to be snide, I really would like to learn more about this. The Wikipedia page for sociology describes "theories" that sound more like schools of thought.

The thing about sociology is that there simply aren't definitive theories akin General Relativity in sociology. At best there are broad methodological schools and approaches, (such as Structuralism, Utilitarianism, etc). The difference is none of these schools and approaches have been or could (within present constraints) be established by experiments as definitive as Newtonian physics, General Relativity, the atomic…

The other thing that makes sociology different from those theories, is that for anything more specific/advanced, it needs a system of values.

When you measure magnetic forces or examine the behavior of gravity, you don't need that.

But when you study society, you need to stand on some foundations of what's desired, good etc -- at least in the very basic sense.

And even something as simple "good is what's useful for society" doesn't answer that, because we then can ask "useful towards what end?", etc. Is something like murder justified? What about war? etc.

Those questions are not (and will never be) settled. At the most basic, the different schools come from different such understandings.

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#58
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a fantastic article, but I don't think excessive, obsessive nuance is what plagues most people here. In any event, don't take it too far. In dynamical system, your theory can be simple and predict observation 100% yet be completely wrong -- not just a little wrong -- and fail to model any of the actual dynamics (e.g. x = 0 and x = t are both completely predictive, yet entirely false, models of x" = 0). It is th…

In any event, don't take it too far. In dynamical system, your theory can be simple and predict observation 100% yet be completely wrong -- not just a little wrong -- and fail to model any of the actual dynamics (e.g. x = 0 and x = t are both completely predictive, yet entirely false, models of x" = 0). It is those simplified theories that are no more than empirical observation, and suffer from another kind of overfi…

> This is failing to fit the data.

This is assuming that the non-fitting data is not ignored, if it is known to the theorist at all. If anything, the bigger problem among social science amateurs is obliviousness to data or lack of intuition to understand how biased collected data is simply because they're unaware of historical data. Hence, they come up with theories like x = t.

> there is only one valid response: "your theory predicts X but experiment shows Y."

Sure, except that the falsifying experiment took place 890 years ago, you likely don't know about it, and if you did, you'd find excuses (possibly good ones) for dismissing it as irrelevant. The problem is, of course, that experiments are very hard to conduct, and all-but-impossible to conduct under lab conditions.

The reason intuition is so important is that we know with absolute certainty that some things that seem so natural and stable now, used to be diametrically different, and they changed because people changed them. If you know from experience that 80% of coefficients are known to vary considerably over time and as a result of human action, you tend to be very skeptical when someone claims they have found a "natural law" of human society.

> So is blaming scientists with simple theories for "atrocities".

Perhaps it's ad hominem, but it really happened and more than once (except the atrocities were real and required no quotation marks). I don't know what else to tell you.

> They make testable predictions which accurately predict the world

Maybe, and maybe they theorize that x = t when, in fact, x" = 0. Showing that x = -t may also be a valid solution requires making huge changes, among them changing the perception that the theories are correct, which in itself perpetuates the path of the system. The only thing you can do is point to historical trends, but historians, most of them ever so careful, just sigh in exasperation, while the masses believe the "science". Just today I read something wonderful about perception of the sexes[1], yet I believe many might find simple models that perfectly predict the world they see around them, not realizing it is no more than the result of people who made it this way so-and-so years ago, and they can make it different yet again.

It's like having a reverse Cassandra complex only in reverse, and it can be just as frustrating.

Do you have any doubts that Netflix's prediction engine shapes people preferences more than it passively predicts them? I am not saying that it doesn't suggest movies people enjoy, only that it could have made completely different suggestions that people may have enjoyed even more. How do you measure the effectiveness of this algorithm against all others (and there are way more possible algorithms that can be tested with the sample they have)? Or do you just declare it successful and accurate?

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4c5l63/in_th...

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#59
post #31

I call this the "abstraction paradox". There is no way that an abstraction can fully equate what it abstracts. "Apple" could never equal a real apple. But abstraction allows us to think about real apples. In science, all theories and models are abstractions. Hence, they are always approximations, and can be invalidated or nullified with edge cases that can indeed be backed by evidence. But the opposite is also true.…

> Verisimilitude is a philosophical concept that distinguishes between the relative and apparent (or seemingly so) truth and falsity of assertions and hypotheses. The problem of verisimilitude is the problem of articulating what it takes for one false theory to be closer to the truth than another false theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verisimilitude

Re: Fuck Nuance [pdf]

#60
post #31

I call this the "abstraction paradox". There is no way that an abstraction can fully equate what it abstracts. "Apple" could never equal a real apple. But abstraction allows us to think about real apples. In science, all theories and models are abstractions. Hence, they are always approximations, and can be invalidated or nullified with edge cases that can indeed be backed by evidence. But the opposite is also true.…

>Otherwise, frankly, academics arguing over what has no consequence will have no consequence outside the circles of those who argue over it. Sociology is mostly a series of status games played by academics. It's part of the humanities, which means the methods of play are peer group signalling and persuasive story-telling, not reality testing. It's not engineering, where models actually have to predict reality with at…

Your entire post is a series of sociological assertions about academics and engineers without scientific evidence. I'm sure the irony was intentional.
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