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Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

theguardian.com

191–200 of 318 posts

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't fall dead after single bullet like in movies. In real scenarios 40 bullets are quite usual.

Shots fired at persons by the german police in 2014 (total): 46 [1]. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_...

[deleted]

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#192
post #27
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the opposition to the Ellis Act? If I own a home and want to sell it, I shouldn't be limited to selling it to someone who wants to be a landlord (a very small minority of people). And if I buy a home, I shouldn't be forced to rent it to someone. If you rent a home you do not own it and you should not have any claim to what happens to it beyond the end of your current lease.

By the Copenhagen Theory of Ethics ( https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth... ), once you rent an apartment to someone for a particular price, you have a moral obligation to continue doing that forever.

I don't see the word "rent" anywhere in your linked article but maybe a synonym is there somewhere.

Regardless, if you agree to rent $PROPERTY to $TENANT and I you want to sell me $PROPERTY, I don't see why I should be bound at all to any agreement with $TENANT outside of letting their current lease expire.

I don't buy that there is any moral obligation in the first place but to extend that to third parties seems a bit silly.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#193
post #21

This article seems to miss some crucial details. How does a jury go from the given description of a man armed with only a Taser being not only shot to disable but absolutely destroyed and vote unanimously in the police's favor? Was the question asked to the jury more specific, did the Guardian leave something out or was the jury really racist as the Guardian implies (by listing their races)?

How can you not get one Hispanic juror on your jury in San Francisco? This to me, is mind blowing. I'm not saying the jury was racist necessarily, just ignorant. Some people go against all reason and trust cops despite common sense that says not to. It's hard to fathom, but I think that's where a lot of these problems come from. One minute, you have a senior in high school who bullies, beats up other students, and can't be trusted with anything and the a few months later, this same person carries around a gun and a badge and society basically absolves him of wrongdoing. Until those attitudes change, the police will continue to get away with blatant murders like this one. Even if every police person in the US stops being racist at once, there will still be murders until our society starts to hold the police and courts responsible for their actions. You do not get to over 2 million people in jail (mostly non-white) without society approving such a mass crime against humanity.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gonna need a citation? Tasers certainly sound safer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3800082

Your argument here appears to be that I am misguided because tasers are safer than firearms. I am not in favor of guns either.

Ah, sorry, I meant for morbidity claim.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether he did or not is almost irrelevant. The police wouldn't have even been there if some dude hadn't decided to call 911 on the guy for "walking while hispanic": > Fritz said he only saw Nieto pacing near a bench and eating from a bag but did not himself see any weapon. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...

>"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't…

> it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear

correct.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you fire a gun at someone, your goal is to kill them. If you're confronting an armed subject and you manage only to wound them, then not only are you making it possible for the to shoot you back, but you're making it overwhelmingly likely that they will --- who could blame them for trying desperately to save their own lives? So to me, 1 bullet, 20 bullets, 40 bullets, who cares? Dead is dead. If you don't want p…

Why fire at all in the given setting? Instead of "Wait for backup, clear out the area"? Retreat out of the immediate danger area, take cover, take time to assess the situation. The general way things go wrong seems to be "police arrives at scene, pulls gun, pulls trigger until clip is empty." [1] - in this case multiple officers, even after the assumed hostile was on the ground and not moving. I'm fine with a deliber…

We do not disagree.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#197

There's a lot left out in Solnit's article, see: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-w...

When reading anything on The Guardian it's important to ask what they aren't telling you, because it's almost certain that they are omitting many very salient details out in order to fit the story into their own narrative. If you knew that Nieto had other problems, you likely wouldn't come away from the Guardian article believing that he was executed for being Hispanic.

The Guardian and Salon are two of the worst offenders. I learned a little while ago that Sam Harris took on Salon. I always thought Sam Harris was a blowhard and annoying to listen to, but I have a lot of respect for him now. We need more honest, courageous intellectuals to take on the fourth estate.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#198
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens in Europe when someone is seen in a public park waving around something that looks like this? http://i2.wp.com/missionlocal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03...

The cops probably would get called, they might shoot. Police is trained to shoot to disable, not to kill. Sometimes they need to of course. Then if there is any doubt they would be prosecuted and jailed if they overreacted ( this happens ). Of course these situations are extremely rare as Western Europe is not as a violent society as the US is. edit: to add: private citizens carying tasers ( let alone guns ) around i…

"shoot to disable" is not a thing.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#199
post #96
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was tried during the 1600's and 1700's, there were 99 year leases on land between the gentry and the yeomen. When costs increased, the gentry were unable to adjust the price on their leases and paved the way for social upheavals.

99 year (or longer) leases are still very common in the UK for apartments ["leasehold property"]. There are issues with leasehold, but "I can only sell my landlord's interest to somebody else willing to be a landlord" isn't really one of them -- it's just an asset with an income stream and a certain amount of upkeep costs and responsibilities, and there are buyers out there who'll take them on and a generally accepte…

And the pool of buyers who wants to deal with that is demonstrably much smaller than the pool of buyers who simply want to live in the damn house. If someone wants to sell their personal property I see no legitimate reason why there should be restrictions on who can buy it.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people said he seemed agitated and nervous when their dogs were walking about by him. I imagine if a dog just charged at you and was barking/howling while its owner was staring at someone's ass, you'd be on edge for a bit as well.

No shit! I agree. I read the first half of the first graf of the story angry at Solnit, for singling out this guy and scare-quoting his occupation. Then I got to the bit about the dog jumping up on Nieto and the simpering excuse-making this guy made about that and I instantly got angry at the guy instead. What an asshole! That lasted a couple minutes. But "poorly managed, barking dog jumps up on someone" happens mill…

Nieto's mental illness if it exists, is not relevant. Many people are "mentally ill" but not a danger to anyone else.

In fact 50% of the people killed by police are "mentally ill".

Also consider that having severe depression, autism, ADD, etc. are considered mental illnesses.

Alex's Nieto's "mental illness", even if existent, is not an excuse for his death.

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