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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#171

Post by radiorental »

imgabe wrote: post #145

To play devil's advocate, which gun law would have prevented this person from getting shot by her toddler? As a gun rights advocate, she presumably has been around guns for a long time and should have been well versed in how to handle them safely. I doubt there's any training that could be mandated that would exceed the experience she already had. Short of banning guns entirely, which would require a constitutional a…

Terrorists have been known to carry guns, babies accidentally fire guns. Let's contrast the two sets.

This falls into the clickbait narrative that so easily triggers opinions either side of the gun law debate. If there's any value to be taken from this comparison it's how "terrorism" is used to direct funding towards agencies like the TSA (and many others) who don't perform any meaningful function.

Or distract us from any of the other difficult to monetize causes of death that overshadow "terrorism".

Meanwhile we all squabble between those holding up the constitution and those yelling 'told you so'. Yet another day in 'Merica.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#172

Post by cm2187 »

goldbrick wrote: post #152
cm2187 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that's true. Crime under totalitarian regimes is usually very low, because the level of control and delation makes it almost impossible to get away with it.

source?

Everything I read about the soviet union. It's a system where everyone is watching each other, where kids are brain washed and pushed to denounce their parents, etc.

Which is also why the western intelligence agencies were struggling to infiltrate the soviet union.

I am talking about totalitarian regimes (Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, North Korea, Maoist China, etc). Simple dictatorships are different. They exert less control over their population.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#173

Post by developer2 »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #98
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anyone who is pro-gun that is going to give up his gun as long as there is a terrorism threat to his family and country. Politicians need to squelch the terrorism war chanting if they ever want any form of gun control to pass in the U.S.

I am quite pro-gun, and terrorism doesn't even register on the reasons why. I believe the same could be said of most everyone I know in that community. It's not about fear; it's primarily about a worldview that centers on individuality and distrust of government.

I've never understood this argument. The day you pull a gun on "government" is the day you will be killed on the spot, or sentenced to death row, or sent to life in prison with no chance of parole. You will be permanently removed from your comfortable life, and whomever takes that life away from you will face no penalty for doing so.

So you own a handgun? The government will have assault rifles. Oh, you own an assault-like rifle? The government will have RPG's and grenades. It doesn't matter what you own, the government will win every time. You are guaranteed to lose.

We hear this argument from Americans every single time this topic is brought up. "It's to keep the government in check!". What a load of horse crap. Every time, we only hear repeated "Constitution! Constitution!". Perhaps a little rational thought is required to comprehend that a document written ~227 years ago is probably out of date with modern reality when it comes to firearms.

It's a combination of amusing, frustrating, and bewildering to witness a large number of Americans' behaviour whenever this topic resurfaces. Honestly, most of the rest of the world out here just can't understand how you people are so goddamn self-indoctrinated into keeping your guns. There is no reasoning that I can apply to even begin to validate the concept that guns in the hands of citizens is a good thing.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#174

Post by anexprogrammer »

Loque wrote: post #138
anexprogrammer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a lot of discussion at the time, and my recollection is he was already known to mental health services. The Sun et al had him painted as a rabid survivalist of course. Wiki seems to say it was retrospective diagnosis, so I'm not sure... I can understand wanting to collect, or at least try, different types, but who in the world needs an assault rifle?

Try different types of guns for what? The only primary purpose of a gun is to inflict a lot of damage to something. The Sun, is a terrible, terrible source of 'news'; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3062107/Getting-hi... (you can safely ignore any of the red tops in the UK) I can understand the deep interest in guns, for instance I thoroughly enjoy FPS russia. But I do not think as a society we can manage t…

I used to fly. I'd quite like to fly many different marques, Spitfire included. So I can understand someone with an interest in firearms wanting to shoot many calibers and types. In the UK target shooting and clay pigeon shooting were the commonest use of firearms, rather than doing damage. Unless you count the paper.

I'm well aware the Sun is just a comic, just sharing the recollection. :)

Overall I'm in favour of law abiding citizens being able to shoot if they wish to, but the experience of the likes of Hungerford and Cumbria tells us it's not worth the risk. I'm inclined to think that in the absence of firearms Ryan or Hamilton would have done something equally terrible with an axe or bread knife. We already had a school machete attack in the 90s. It's the mental state not the firearm per se that's the problem. So I don't find it as clear cut as maybe I'd like it to be.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#175

Post by alistairSH »

throwaway21816 wrote: post #154
alistairSH wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because guns are expressly designed to kill. They serve no other purpose (ignoring sporting uses, as those are basically a proxy for proving how well one can kill with a gun). There is no reason anybody outside of the military needs a gun to carry out their day to day jobs. That isn't true of cars or hospitals.

Knives are expressly designed to cut. They serve no Purpose (ignoring cooking, as those are basically a proxy for proving how well one can cut with a knife). There is no reason anybody outside of the kitchen needs a knife to carry out their day to day jobs. Encryption is expressly designed to hide terrorists. It serves no purpose (ignoring privacy, as that is basically a proxy for proving how well one can hide from t…

Nice throw-away. How 'bout you man up and own your opinions?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#176

Post by optimuspaul »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #103
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

>> police are not routinely armed I'm a gun owner and this is the key point for me. No politician is in a position to tell me I don't need my semi-automatic pistol if every day I see a patrol car go by my house with 2 fully automatic AR-15s locked between the front seats and my local police department owns an armoured vehicle. If you really think you have a plan for getting rid of guns for bad guys as well as me, pro…

Huh, what's wrong with me then. I absolutely do not need a gun, ever. Nobody needs a gun. If you think you need a gun then you have serious problems.

Let's talk about basic human needs. Food, water, Air, and to a lesser extent clothing and shelter. You don't need a gun for any of those things. Sure a gun can help with food, but guess what, you don't even need to eat meat, there are so many other sources of food.

So no, you don't need a gun, and you sure as hell don't need a "semi-automatic pistol".

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#177

Post by radiorental »

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

> firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m)

Are you sure about those statistics?

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/192/total_num...

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#178

Post by tonyedgecombe »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #98
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anyone who is pro-gun that is going to give up his gun as long as there is a terrorism threat to his family and country. Politicians need to squelch the terrorism war chanting if they ever want any form of gun control to pass in the U.S.

I am quite pro-gun, and terrorism doesn't even register on the reasons why. I believe the same could be said of most everyone I know in that community. It's not about fear; it's primarily about a worldview that centers on individuality and distrust of government.

>It's not about fear; it's primarily about a worldview that centers on individuality and distrust of government.

Sounds like fear to me.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#179

Post by tmaly »

You have to remember only law abiding citizens in the US follow the gun laws.

If a bad guy breaks into your house in the middle of the night, the police response time is not enough to save you and your family. If you want to protect your young child in this case, its better to lawfully own a gun and have proper training on how to use it.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#180

Post by alistairSH »

throwaway21816 wrote: post #143
alistairSH wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, we should all be allowed to own bazookas and nukes and aircraft carriers? Because, if this is about securing the state (either against a tyrannical government, or a 3rd party), rifles and handguns aren't going to cut it. Or, are you limiting your interpretation to firearms in common use at the time of the Constitutional Convention? In which case, you can turn in your Glock and your AK. Point being, we already hav…

You can actually own a bazooka if you fill out the correct paperwork. It is a NFA item as regulated by the ATF and each round (aside from rounds containing no explosives) are their own NFA regulated item. Each bazooka and explosive round requires a long approval process, $200 fee, fingerprinting and passport photos. Each explosive round must be stored in a ammunition bunker built to strict ATF regulations and you mus…

Huh, didn't realize bazookas were actually legal.

But, the fact that there is an NFA requirement proves my point - the 2A isn't absolute - there are restrictions placed on firearms.

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