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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#31

Post by mineshaftgap »

tobltobs wrote: post #15
jeremysmyth wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ultimate worry is that in 100 years our countries will be split into separate warring tribes. The ultimate worry is that there won't be a 100 years. Some demagogues and dogmas attract ruthless followers. It only takes one well-supplied psychopath (with access) to cause a huge amount of damage. It might be an idiot with a bomb in his underwear, or it might be a North Korean nuclear submarine captain.

Or one shit-crazy US president.

The world is going to pull their own hair out, but that is about all they can do.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#32

Post by youngone »

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

The ensuing total ban on handguns ... mean firearm murders are extremely rare

Given that firearm murders rose after the ban (link from jjoonathan), please explain very clearly to me how can the low rate (it was low in the first place) be caused by the ban (you said the ban 'means' the low rate)?

I'm really looking forward to seeing how you can support your claim.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#33

Post by forgotpwtomain »

lhnz wrote: post #17
forgotpwtomain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn't mean toddlers are more dangerous than terrorists. It means there are more toddlers. The article never made this point. All it said is that they kill more people. In which case it would seem reasonable to ask, can we save more lives, more effectively with enhanced gun control then with enhanced anti-terrorism measures (I suspect governments are more interested in the later because it really is a power g…

> The article never made this point. All it said is that they kill more people. If that was the case they would not have mentioned terrorism. The comparison to terrorism exists because it makes the article travel better between members of the Blue Tribe who think anxieties over terrorism are overblown and better gun control would be good. Remove the link to terrorism and the article would have had less currency withi…

>>> This doesn't mean toddlers are more dangerous than terrorists. It means there are more toddlers.

>> The article never made this point. All it said is that they kill more people. In which case it would seem reasonable to ask, can we save more lives, more effectively with enhanced gun control then with enhanced anti-terrorism measures..

> If that was the case they would not have mentioned terrorism.

Your first statement 'toddlers are more dangerous than terrorists' is not to be found anywhere in the article, the article mentioned terrorism in order to make the second statement which I pointed out to you. I'm not sure what you are unclear about?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#34

Post by baldfat »

tobltobs wrote: post #15
jeremysmyth wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ultimate worry is that in 100 years our countries will be split into separate warring tribes. The ultimate worry is that there won't be a 100 years. Some demagogues and dogmas attract ruthless followers. It only takes one well-supplied psychopath (with access) to cause a huge amount of damage. It might be an idiot with a bomb in his underwear, or it might be a North Korean nuclear submarine captain.

Or one shit-crazy US president.

Trump or Cruz or both?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#35

Post by Loque »

youngone wrote: post #32
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

The ensuing total ban on handguns ... mean firearm murders are extremely rare Given that firearm murders rose after the ban (link from jjoonathan), please explain very clearly to me how can the low rate (it was low in the first place) be caused by the ban (you said the ban 'means' the low rate)? I'm really looking forward to seeing how you can support your claim.

A lot less mass shootings for starters, same for Australia - in fact IIRC none, in Australia since the ban.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#36

Post by adwf »

jjoonathan wrote: post #23
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

I don't think it worked out quite the way you said: http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-b... Obligatory un-zeroed-axis warning, but the point stands.

Terribly cherry-picked charts there.

The UK had a spike in homicides in 2003, so what? The overall trend is clearly downwards. The 2009 firearm homicide rate is less than half the avg. rate for the 90's and I believe it has only gone down further since (cherry picked date ranges).

Ireland had an increase in homicides following gun bans in the 70's? And it was the gun ban that caused it, not the Troubles? Likewise Jamaica - nothing at all to do with the massive increase in drug trafficking flowing through the Carribean, following the start of drug-prohibition in the 70's?

EDIT: It turns out the data is dodgy as well. The spike is due to all 170+ of Harold Shipman's murders being recorded solely in 02/03

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#37

Post by youngone »

Loque wrote: post #35
youngone wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ensuing total ban on handguns ... mean firearm murders are extremely rare Given that firearm murders rose after the ban (link from jjoonathan), please explain very clearly to me how can the low rate (it was low in the first place) be caused by the ban (you said the ban 'means' the low rate)? I'm really looking forward to seeing how you can support your claim.

A lot less mass shootings for starters, same for Australia - in fact IIRC none, in Australia since the ban.

That wasn't what was claimed by the person I replied to. He claimed at the low rate of firearms murders was a result of the ban. But firearms murders rose after the ban.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#38

Post by JustSomeNobody »

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

I don't know anyone who is pro-gun that is going to give up his gun as long as there is a terrorism threat to his family and country. Politicians need to squelch the terrorism war chanting if they ever want any form of gun control to pass in the U.S.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#39

Post by pjc50 »

geggam wrote: post #18
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

Well, that particular incident was similar to the US killing of a US national in a drone strike, and in neither case does having a firearm really help.

Having an actual discussion on armed political conflict vs. the government would involve Northern Ireland, which would take far too long for HN.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#40

Post by scotty79 »

dheera wrote: post #19

How exactly do we define "terrorist"? For example, why is the San Bernandino mass shooting NOT considered terrorism? Because more people were killed in that single incident than were shot by toddlers in all of 2015.

Actually this includes San Bernardino as terrorism:

http://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-americans-terrorists/ (very bottom)

kills: toddlers vs. terrorists, 21 to 19 (including 14 in San Bernardino)

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