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Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

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Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#51

Post by toomuchtodo »

DanBC wrote: post #38
cphoover wrote: post #24

I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.

> and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity. Several vigorous campaigns existed to improve the conditions for pigs. Look at England for an example, where changes in English law were voluntarily followed by Danish and Dutch pig farmers so they could compete on welfare standards. See also "free range" eggs and higher welfare farm standards. Plenty of people like eating meat but will only buy meat f…

As soon as vat grown meat surpasses traditional meat sources in cost and quality, it'll make life a whole lot easier for everyone.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#52

Post by dopamean »

elwesties wrote: post #44
Tiktaalik wrote: post #16

> In line with this, several decades of observation show that orcas are not naturally violent towards humans. There are no recorded cases of a wild orca killing a human. In a recent BBC Attenborough documentary (I think Frozen Planet) there was a sequence where they showed teams of killer whales swiftly swimming just under the surface to create a wave in an attempt to knock a seal off an ice flow so that they could e…

I have personally swum with wild Orcas. They seemed to asses me then discount me as food fairly quickly.

This is not an assessment I'd be interesting in undergoing.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#53

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

funkyy wrote: post #35
crispyambulance wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know! Now which appendage should I offer for the tasting menu....

The smallest finger - hopefully its the one in your foot ;) But to be serious, I wonder if cutting yourself would be enough for them to taste you and go away or if it would have opposite effect.

There is only one way to find out.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#54

Post by Tiktaalik »

azakai wrote: post #49
funkyy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attacks on humans by Orcas happens. Its that they do not eat humans, once they realize its us, they let go and swim away. They need to taste us first, especially if none of the members of group haven't tasted or interacted with humans before.

It's not just that they don't eat us, it's also that they haven't killed us for other reasons. For example, a human happening to stray close to a young orca might be confused as a threat to it, which could trigger an attack by a parent. Yet, despite there being lots of orcas in the ocean, no violent altercation between a wild orca and a human has led to a human death. That this hasn't happened even once is remarkable…

One explanation could be that Orcas and Humans simply don't come in contact that often.

Orcas are common where I live in British Columbia, but you really don't have that many swimmers around in contrast to tropical areas. Additionally, the local resident orcas eat salmon and I don't think they'd consider humans to be a potential food source. Transient orcas eat seals, and I could imagine them confusing a human with a seal just as great white sharks do. Maybe the migration patterns of transient orcas don't line up with when and where people swim.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#55

Post by user_0001 »

tn13 wrote: post #37
dpflan wrote: post #5

Blackfish is definitely a provocative documentary on this topic of killer whale captivity.

Sadly that documentary is one sided and what appears to be motivated documentary. We need to hear the other side too.

The other side? That good money can be made by keeping animals in substandard conditions for their complete well being (mental and physical)?

:-\

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#56

Post by asciimo »

scoofy wrote: post #30
cphoover wrote: post #24

I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.

So, there is animal rights, and animal welfare. I think one of the main problems for orcas is size. Creating an appropriately sized habitat for them would be a gargantuan endeavor, however, if we could, i think a lot of us would be less vehemently opposed to keeping them in captivity. For pigs, this is entirely plausible. While i'm also very opposed to our current factory farming practices, since i'm fairly nihilisti…

It sounds like you support animal welfare, but not animal rights. I would expect someone who supports animal rights to not be OK with captivity for human gain.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#58

Post by azakai »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #54
azakai wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that they don't eat us, it's also that they haven't killed us for other reasons. For example, a human happening to stray close to a young orca might be confused as a threat to it, which could trigger an attack by a parent. Yet, despite there being lots of orcas in the ocean, no violent altercation between a wild orca and a human has led to a human death. That this hasn't happened even once is remarkable…

One explanation could be that Orcas and Humans simply don't come in contact that often. Orcas are common where I live in British Columbia, but you really don't have that many swimmers around in contrast to tropical areas. Additionally, the local resident orcas eat salmon and I don't think they'd consider humans to be a potential food source. Transient orcas eat seals, and I could imagine them confusing a human with a…

That's certainly a factor. However, orca are not limited to cold climates, even if they are found more there. Their natural range includes all oceans,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale#Range_and_habitat

and they can encounter humans not just when the humans are swimming - which is rare in cold climates - but also when they are fishing.

Furthermore, there are also practically no cases of other dolphins than orca killing humans, and human-dolphin encounters are not that rare. For example, even in the times of ancient Greece, dolphins were known and considered very friendly,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin#In_history_and_religio...

Other dolphins are of course significantly smaller than orca, but still very powerful when in the water.

I don't think there is an obvious answer for why wild orca have never been seen killing a human, and practically no other dolphin either. It's an interesting mystery.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#59

Post by aninhumer »

akavi wrote: post #50
darklajid wrote: post #27

My wife keeps hitting me when I (intentionally, to mess with her) call these creatures 'killer whales'. The name doesn't help, really. The subtitle is 'Keeping orcas in aquariums deprives them of crucial aspects of their lives, and in some cases it can even prove dangerous to humans'. BBC seems to know what these creatures are called, but prefers to use 'killer whales' in the title. Why? That's messed up, both in gen…

> BBC seems to know what these creatures are called Yes, they're called both "orcas" and "killer whales", with the latter being more common. And on that note, do people really parse "killer whales" as "whales that kill (people?)". I'm pretty sure I don't; my brain treats the phrase as an opaque semantic unit meaning "those giant, black and white dolphins".

I parse it as a unit, but it's not opaque. The word killer still carries a pretty violent connotation.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#60

Post by [deleted] »

matwood wrote: post #15
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, I wish I lived in an era of human history when technology had improved to the point where we could explore or communicate with distant planets and meet other sentient life forms. On the other hand, our treatment of lifeforms of varying difference to ourselves already on our planet is deeply troubling. The thought of that culture spreading across the galaxy like a disease is horrifying. I have a pet d…

> I have a pet dog. I think I treat her well. Will my descendants look back on this and compare me to my not-so-distant ancestors who were racist or sexist? I know mine will not. My dogs are living the good life.

[deleted]
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