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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#121

Post by mindcrime »

hackuser wrote: post #19

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message.

Do they realize that the average American High-School aged student would consider almost all of those activities to be archaic relics of a bygone age? Young people don't use email or drop-down menus, and even texting is "so 2000's". American teens have moved on to Snapchat or whatever is after that.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#122

Post by acjohnson55 »

subway wrote: post #80
hackuser wrote: post #19

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

Why can't I help but feel the "our users must never be forced to learn" and "our children must never experience discomfort" mindsets are related, and contribute to the US coming in last place.

Of our peer nations in the survey, some are known for very intense childhood expectations and others for being more nurturing than us. I'd suggest the answer is probably elsewhere.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#123

Post by HillaryBriss »

mdorazio wrote: post #76
tamana wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't pass the smell test all. Your school sent 10% of its students to elite colleges, that's clearly not common.

It doesn't have to be common. You can move to whatever school district you want to (if you have the money for housing there) and get that same level of education. No one's forcing you to send your kids to sub-par public schools.

Oh man.

You should try raising a family in Southern California. See what kind of school district you can afford to live in. See if you still believe that "you can move to whatever school district you want to."

Oy.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#124

Post by losteric »

ajmurmann wrote: post #97
subway wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't I help but feel the "our users must never be forced to learn" and "our children must never experience discomfort" mindsets are related, and contribute to the US coming in last place.

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to start the company that makes the only product that has it as part of its philosophy to make their users learn in order to be able to use it efficiently. That being said you are probably right and the dumbed down UIs we see more and more with low information density are annoying and underline what you are saying. Everything is catering to the lowest common denominator.

It depends on the product... Photoshop's did pretty well and it's learning curve is almost vertical.

It's all about reducing pain. If you're automating something simple (like a TODO list), it better be stupid-friendly. But expert-oriented UX is fine for complex expert-level problems.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#125

Post by esaym »

cmurf wrote: post #46
esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

And what if they don't want to do web dev work, ever?

I "expect" they will like what I show them. If nothing else, they will have a skill they can use down the road. You know all those math classes your kids will take in public school? What if they don't want to be a mathematician? Same logic.

I've worked plenty of other jobs, from clerk, to auto mechanic, to IT, they'll be getting a dose of it all. This is what you do as a parent, you show your kids where you've been, what you've done, and the wrongs you've done.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#126

Post by Throwaway23412 »

mindcrime wrote: post #121
hackuser wrote: post #19

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Do they realize that the average American High-School aged student would consider almost all of those activities to be archaic relics of a bygone age? Young people don't use email or drop-down menus, and even texting is "so 2000's". Amer…

Am I missing something? In what world does the average young person not use a drop-down menu? Also, doesn't Snapchat require an email to register? Do young people not use iMessage or any other messaging app to send text messages?

Are you making a joke that went over my head?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#127

Post by mikeyouse »

tamana wrote: post #67
mikeyouse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many public schools are just fine, if not excellent.. Something like 90% of my 300-student graduating class ended up in college, several dozen at Ivys or "near-Ivy" schools. We had intensive programming classes and maybe 15 or 20 AP options. This was just a random upper middle class district in the Midwest, we were rarely on the list of the 100-best schools in the state.

That doesn't pass the smell test all. Your school sent 10% of its students to elite colleges, that's clearly not common.

To be fair, I'm including UMich in that list which was a state school with preferential admissions for in-state students.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#128

Post by Mikeb85 »

naveen99 wrote: post #48
Mikeb85 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the top 1% in the US will look decent I think. The US had, at some point, decided they wanted the school system to be unequal when they associated funding with property taxes from each region, thereby ensuring rich neighborhoods have well funded school, and poor neighborhoods poor schools. This enshines inequality into the system, so the top will have comparatively more resources. And you're far too optimistic a…

Funding doesn't help enough by itself, and the poor school districts get supplemental funds from federal and state governments bringing their total funding on par or higher than richer school districts. I went through poor public schools and richer public schools. Resources were not very different. If anything less competition at poor schools gave me an extra edge.

> If anything less competition at poor schools gave me an extra edge.

How so? Are they curving grades? Smaller class sizes because of more drop-outs? More teacher attention because you cared more than the 'poor' kids?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#129

Post by adbachman »

amorphid wrote: post #77
megablast wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are just going to teach them what you think is important? Home schooling has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.

Doesn't state approved home schooling (in the USA) usually include aptitude testing at a local school? My impression was that the curriculum was set by the school, and the teaching was done by the parent.

Not universally, but laws vary widely by state so there may be somewhere that that's true. In our case we have a once a year peer review session to go over what we did but we choose all the material ourselves and aren't given any particular material or requirements from the local schools.

There's an expectation that we are providing an education, but until our kids want to enter the system in one way or another, they won't be tested against its requirements.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#130

Post by mikeyouse »

crispyambulance wrote: post #90
mikeyouse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many public schools are just fine, if not excellent.. Something like 90% of my 300-student graduating class ended up in college, several dozen at Ivys or "near-Ivy" schools. We had intensive programming classes and maybe 15 or 20 AP options. This was just a random upper middle class district in the Midwest, we were rarely on the list of the 100-best schools in the state.

That's great for you, but it is NOT typical and I suspect that many of the 100 best were private schools.

Nah, most were public, Michigan had good public schools in general. There were certainly bad public schools as well, but I'm just pointing out that many millions of kids go through excellent public schools and are better for it.
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