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AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

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Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's any consolation, there are still tons of things humans are far better at than machines.

The only remaining are language-related. Natural languages are the next focal point of AI research.

Skill related. I'd be interesting to see how quickly driving AIs take to beat the best human drivers, in a weight-equal vehicle. An algorithmic competitor in formula one, would be interesting.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#92
post #61
post #12

The thing that was supposed to take at least 10 years happened. Only last month people were still saying that no way AlphaGo will beat the champion and that it will be crushed. Today everybody will have seen it coming and say that it was normal. Yet people will still tell that worrying about AI taking over is like worrying about overpopulation on Mars, and that this is a problem at least 50 years out.

Highly optimised single-function algorithms like this are impressive stuff and can lead to useful tools, but that's it. This gets us no closer to strong AI than a tic tac toe program. Until we have systems that can tackle a wide range of fundamentally different problems and independently adapt strategies for dealing with one class of problems to deal with other classes of problems, systems like Alphago will remain on…

Regarding your edit, I'd wager that it won't stay true for long. Eventually the single-function problem of orchestrating and directing a bunch of sub-solvers in a similar manner to the human brain will become feasible. At that point true general purpose AI will exist, for all intents and purposes.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#93
post #75
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly optimised single-function algorithms like this are impressive stuff and can lead to useful tools, but that's it. This gets us no closer to strong AI than a tic tac toe program. Until we have systems that can tackle a wide range of fundamentally different problems and independently adapt strategies for dealing with one class of problems to deal with other classes of problems, systems like Alphago will remain on…

In case you're not aware, AlphaGo's key component is based on the same type of Deepmind system that learned to play dozens of Atari games, to superhuman levels, by watching the pixels, without any programmatic adaptation to the particular Atari game. At least the version of AlphaGo that played in October was far less specialized for Go than Deep Blue was for chess. Demis Hassabis says that next up after this is getti…

That's incorrect. The features that AlphaGo uses are not pixel level features, but board states - and the architecture between AlphaGo and the Atari network is completely different.

It's still an incredibly achievement - but it's important to be accurate.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's any consolation, there are still tons of things humans are far better at than machines.

The only remaining are language-related. Natural languages are the next focal point of AI research.

That, and towel-folding [1]. Humans have a pretty clear edge on that.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5g33S0Gzo&ab_channel=RLLbe...

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#96
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah according to Redmond, it seemed that AlphaGo made a few "mistakes" whereas Sedol made none. And yet AlphaGo came out substantially ahead. So I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps we need to see more in-depth analysis of the moves, but it seems that AlphaGo just out-calculated Sedol.

maybe the mistakes were unrecognized brilliant moves (tesujis).

I would love to see an expert analysis of the game, but there were definitely a few moves where AlphaGo was "pushing from behind" that were probably not what an expert human would play.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#98

I was at the 2003 match of Garry Kasparov vs Deep Junior -- the strongest chess player of all time vs what was at that point the strongest chess playing computer in history. Kasparov drew that match, but it was clear it was the last stand of homo sapiens in the man vs machine chess battle. Back then, people took solace in the game of Go. Many boldly and confidently predicted we wouldn't see a computer beat the Go wor…

...it was the last stand of homo sapiens in the man vs machine...

But who made that machine?

I'd say a more precise evaluation would be that the ability to program a machine to assist in playing chess outdid the ability to play chess without such assistance.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#99
post #61
post #12

The thing that was supposed to take at least 10 years happened. Only last month people were still saying that no way AlphaGo will beat the champion and that it will be crushed. Today everybody will have seen it coming and say that it was normal. Yet people will still tell that worrying about AI taking over is like worrying about overpopulation on Mars, and that this is a problem at least 50 years out.

Highly optimised single-function algorithms like this are impressive stuff and can lead to useful tools, but that's it. This gets us no closer to strong AI than a tic tac toe program. Until we have systems that can tackle a wide range of fundamentally different problems and independently adapt strategies for dealing with one class of problems to deal with other classes of problems, systems like Alphago will remain on…

Welcome to the AI effect! Every time AI makes an accomplishment, it is disregarded. The goalposts are perpetually moved. "AI is whatever computers can't do yet."

People said for years that Go would never be beaten in our lifetime. They said this because Go has a massive search space. It can't be beaten by brute force search. It requires intelligence, the ability to learn and recognize patterns.

And it requires doing that at the level of a human. A brute force algorithm can beat humans by doing a stupid thing far faster than a human can. But a pattern recognition based system has to beat us by playing the same way we do. If humans can learn to recognize a specific board pattern, it also has to be able to learn that pattern. If humans can learn a certain strategy, it also has to be able to learn that strategy. All on it's own, through pattern recognition.

And this leads to a far more general algorithm. The same basic algorithm that can play Go, can also do machine vision, it can compose music, it can translate languages, or it could drive cars. Unlike the brute force method that only works one one specific task, the general method is, well, general. We are building artificial brains that are already learning to do complex tasks faster and better than humans. If that's not progress towards AGI, I don't know what is.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#100
post #86
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So has AlphaGo raised its level so far just by continuing with the games against itself? Or did they just throw their entire server farm at it? (Or both, probably.)

I would bet a mix of both. What will be more interesting is if it ends at 5-0 if we will see AlphaGo vs. Darkforest (Facebook's engine) soon after.

Facebook's Go engine is not remotely close to competing with AlphaGo. In fact, it's about comparable to the pre-existing top Go programs; the only newsworthy thing about it is that it's from Facebook and it uses neural nets.
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