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AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

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Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#81

Post by panic »

brian_cloutier wrote: post #71
panic wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of how good the deep learning network is on its own, the algorithm described in the DeepMind paper is an improved tree search.

Forest for the trees. Monte Carlo Tree Search was necessary and itself a massive improvement over minimax but not sufficient for creating a Go program to challenge professional players. The true innovation here is the neural networks. Without those networks to guide it AlphaGo plays far worse than existing programs. The fact that those networks are sufficient is pretty incredible. We already knew that by inventing th…

It's totally impressive! I'm excited for the future of DeepMind and to see what other kinds of things we can build from neural networks. I'm just saying that we have to be careful with what kind of intelligence we ascribe to an algorithm like this. An AI is not going to take over the world by impressing us with its game-playing skills.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#82

Post by lovemenot »

typeformer wrote: post #47
panic wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeepMind is an algorithm which clearly improves a lot on traditional tree search. But how will a better tree search algorithm lead to AI taking over? Why does winning at Go mean AI is closer to taking over the world than when it won at Chess?

@panic I'm sorry but you don't understand go.

This reinforces what a bad idea it is to drink and post.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#83

Post by mathgenius »

tunesmith wrote: post #50

I watched the commentary that Michael Redmond gave (9-dan-professional) and he didn't point out one obvious mistake that Lee Sedol made the entire match. Just really high quality play by AlphaGo. Really amazing moment to see Lee Sedol resign by putting one of his opponent's stones on the board.

Yeah according to Redmond, it seemed that AlphaGo made a few "mistakes" whereas Sedol made none. And yet AlphaGo came out substantially ahead. So I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps we need to see more in-depth analysis of the moves, but it seems that AlphaGo just out-calculated Sedol.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#84

Post by faizshah »

riffraff wrote: post #79
CamperBob2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing is that this algorithm taught itself to master the game. If you're writing a chess engine, you just "write the AI for the problem space" in a few dozen lines of code, as you put it, and let brute force do the rest. In the case of DeepMind, faced with a game where a traversal approach is numerically impossible, its programmers gave it the ability to improve by playing against itself. That's the d…

it is a big deal, but it is still very different from general AI, and we are very good at underestimating complexity. Remember that "solve computer vision" was considered a summer project.

I think it's the same as what happened when the perceptron was the big thing in the 50s/60s. Many made far overreaching conclusions about how the problem of AI had been solved.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#85

Post by lololomg »

Eliezer wrote: post #68
agildehaus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Google talked about the amount of computing resources they're throwing at this match? I'd be very interested to know.

I'd guess more on the order of 10,000 GPUs.

They only used 175 GPUs in the match 5 months ago.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#86

Post by jonbaer »

taneq wrote: post #28
jonbaer wrote: post #15

"AlphaGos Elo when it beat Fan Hui was 3140 using 1202 CPUs and 176 GPUs. Lee Sedol has an equivalent Elo to 3515 on the same scale (Elos on different scales aren't directly comparable). For each doubling of computer resources AlphaGo gains about 60 points of Elo."

So has AlphaGo raised its level so far just by continuing with the games against itself? Or did they just throw their entire server farm at it? (Or both, probably.)

I would bet a mix of both. What will be more interesting is if it ends at 5-0 if we will see AlphaGo vs. Darkforest (Facebook's engine) soon after.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#87

Post by reacweb »

mathgenius wrote: post #83
tunesmith wrote: post #50

I watched the commentary that Michael Redmond gave (9-dan-professional) and he didn't point out one obvious mistake that Lee Sedol made the entire match. Just really high quality play by AlphaGo. Really amazing moment to see Lee Sedol resign by putting one of his opponent's stones on the board.

Yeah according to Redmond, it seemed that AlphaGo made a few "mistakes" whereas Sedol made none. And yet AlphaGo came out substantially ahead. So I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps we need to see more in-depth analysis of the moves, but it seems that AlphaGo just out-calculated Sedol.

maybe the mistakes were unrecognized brilliant moves (tesujis).

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#88

Post by mcintyre1994 »

EGreg wrote: post #17

Does this mean in the next few decades, computers will make better sex partners and companions than any human?

Maybe someone can hack a dating/popular fetish forum or one of the many IM services used heavily for that sort of thing and we can get a dataset to teach computers to sext!

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#89

Post by Eliezer »

lololomg wrote: post #85
Eliezer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess more on the order of 10,000 GPUs.

They only used 175 GPUs in the match 5 months ago.

I was actually thinking primarily of distributed training time for the networks and playing time for the system, rather than the number of GPUs running this particular match. Also, I thought the number of GPUs in October was more on the order of 1,000? Happy to be told I'm mistaken though.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#90

Post by tim333 »

21 wrote: post #12

The thing that was supposed to take at least 10 years happened. Only last month people were still saying that no way AlphaGo will beat the champion and that it will be crushed. Today everybody will have seen it coming and say that it was normal. Yet people will still tell that worrying about AI taking over is like worrying about overpopulation on Mars, and that this is a problem at least 50 years out.

Some people may say AI being a worry is 50 years but not usually smart ones who know anything much about it.
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