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Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about more things? Credit, which was literally created to hose the poor. How about goddamn product marketing which merely has the effect 1) robbing poor people of their time and 2) jacking up costs of goods at the expense of 1? It's all wrong.

I always thought credit was created by merchants to screw the nobility. If there's anything that screws the poor, it's inflation .

Clarification, for the benefit of the sibling comments: inflation screws the poor because

(1) the poor are most likely to be on either fixed incomes, or incomes where cost-of-living adjustments are substantially time-delayed relative to the increased cost of living, and

(2) they're least likely to have any sort of hedge against inflation or sudden shocks to the system, such as having a paid-off house, a fixed-rate mortgage, adequate savings to handle an emergency, or investments in assets other than plain ol' US Dollars That Only Come In On The First And Fifteenth.

The middle class weather inflation just fine -- they're likely to get yearly raises that outpace inflation, to have savings to be able to handle unexpected price increases, and to have at least some assets that keep up with inflation even if their liquid accounts don't. And the wealthy benefit from inflation, because their factories keep producing widgets but their labor costs go down relative to the price of widgets.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#112

What the quoted study showed was a lot of "did" and "didn't" behavior, but the article phrased it as "can't". There are some poor of whom it is literally true that they can't spend $24 on toilet paper. My local food bank gives out rolls of TP, and keeps nearly-empty rolls in the public bathrooms because rolls that are above half get stolen. Some of the clientele literally have every dollar for the month already spoke…

I grew up on welfare, in a single parent home. Parent chainsmoked 2 packs a day, which barely left enough money for decent food let alone toilet paper. And yet, somehow, we stocked up on toilet paper when it was on sale.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#114
post #90

Since the crowd around here can't exist without an increase in poverty, the real question is how many poor people do we need to produce one Zuckerberg. If we want more Zuckerbergs we need more poor people, just as if we want more whales in the ocean we need more ocean. Pretty sure Trump can work out a nice formula to export the poor into the developing world, in return for an expansion of H1B visas or something. Give…

This comment is absolutely baffling to me - I can't even disagree because I don't understand what you are saying.

I believe the op is referring to the debate about wealth creation and distribution, where one could have a view that people in IT-startups like Zuckerberg are not creating wealth, just distributing it. And to distribute, you need to have someone to distribute FROM and someone to distribute TO. Now the comment should be more legible, I believe.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#115
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is worth pointing out - education is human capital, an intangible form of wealth.

That was bought with tangible wealth and the mildly less tangible opportunity cost of having the time to do that instead of work.

Having actual tangible wealth is not necessary. One can opt to join the army and fund college via the GI Bill, for instance.

And generally, opportunity cost tends not to be super high when you don't have skills or an education.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about more things? Credit, which was literally created to hose the poor. How about goddamn product marketing which merely has the effect 1) robbing poor people of their time and 2) jacking up costs of goods at the expense of 1? It's all wrong.

I always thought credit was created by merchants to screw the nobility. If there's anything that screws the poor, it's inflation .

That may have been the original intent a thousand years ago, but now with its sophistication, it's become a highly-available crutch to the poor and middle class, putting downward pressure on wages and allowing banks and creditors to get a piece of every dollar someone spends.

Not to mention, if you don't "play the game" and you abstain from using credit, you're still subject to the cost of credit, as merchants have to charge more for their products to cover the cost of credit processing (which is exorbitantly high).

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#117
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, the quote irritates me to no end (doubly so how people trip over each other to copypaste it). In practice, most opportunities are not a pure savings like this where you will end up ahead in every way if only you could borrow the money; usually, you'll end up with more painful feet but more money to spend, as the cheaper shoes aren't completely useless and in need of replacement. If the quote were as true as cl…

Except that such institutions do exist, and in many cases they do trigger upwards spirals [1]. The high fixed costs of collection relative to the actual loan amounts drive up the incentive to be a bad actor (on both sides of the transaction) and that makes small amounts of debt much more expensive than large amounts. But the existence of bad actors doesn't invalidate the positive impact access to low-cost loans can c…

But the Vimes theory was being offered to explain socioeconomic inequality within a society and depends on the "poor" options being more expensive per unit, while the microfinance successes happen mainly via investment of from richer countries into poorer ones, where they have lower prices per unit. (i.e. a dollar buys a lot more stuff in the third world).

IOW, to the extent that microfinance has successes, it's in situations that have the opposite dynamic of the Vimes example and do not count as an implication of the theory.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#118
post #108
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is worth pointing out - education is human capital, an intangible form of wealth.

thanks for sharing that nugget of wisdom, I don't think I've ever heard a perspective on education that was more inspiring. I'm going to stop making excuses and go back to school, I think.

I almost don't want to say this because I'd hate to discourage anyone from going back to school, but school isn't necessary or sufficient for having or gaining an education. Nowadays especially.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#119

What the quoted study showed was a lot of "did" and "didn't" behavior, but the article phrased it as "can't". There are some poor of whom it is literally true that they can't spend $24 on toilet paper. My local food bank gives out rolls of TP, and keeps nearly-empty rolls in the public bathrooms because rolls that are above half get stolen. Some of the clientele literally have every dollar for the month already spoke…

I grew up on welfare, in a single parent home. Parent chainsmoked 2 packs a day, which barely left enough money for decent food let alone toilet paper. And yet, somehow, we stocked up on toilet paper when it was on sale.

I have three people I point to for how different the experience can be.

One friend was living on disability (about $570/month) and food stamps (about $140/month), in a group home. His one "luxury" was he'd buy GI-Joe figurines every month, for about $20. At one point he asked me to take him to the store because he wasn't going to be able to walk the 10+ blocks that day. As he was shopping, I realized he had something like 30 pounds of meat in his cart and almost nothing else. I told him to put half of it back and add a bag of potatoes, and that whenever he wanted to cook meat, cook half as much as he normally would and replace the rest with potatoes. It was life-changing for him -- he was able to eat every day, and had enough money left over to start buying things like toilet paper in bulk. I've since lost track of him, and I'm sure he's still poor, but he's a more secure grade of poor than he had been.

Another friend was a divorced mom, recently remarried to a disabled man. She's unable to handle a full-time job, but works a few days a week as a substitute teacher. Between disability, child support, and work she makes maybe $1500 a month. She's always bought in bulk, usually splitting orders with her parents and siblings who live in the same complex. The only real escape from poverty she has is to recover from psychological trauma to the point that she can work full time.

Third is a young couple, both just turned 20, and their son is 3 years old. He's had adequate work for a while, but hides financial information from her, they both have expensive phones they use for things my old prepaid Moto X can do for a lot lower price, and they both have a tendency to eat fast food even though he works at a grocery store that has a good selection and good prices. The two things that have kept them from disaster for the past year: I let them live in my basement for a token amount of rent that I stopped collecting after a few months, and his grandparents have helped them pay off a couple of surprise expenses. She recently found work, and with two incomes they're able to afford their own place fairly comfortably, but for a while there it looked like they were going to get into a bad cycle like the one detailed in the article.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#120
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just looked up portable bidet. Yes it's a thing. The first product came up has this in it's Amazon page. Wiping is barbaric! Your bottom begs for salvation LOL

> Wiping is barbaric! Your bottom begs for salvation It's funny but I really do fee this way when I use regular toilet paper. You're just smearing poop all around! It's sick!

So true!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAeV-8Ay5Go

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