Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#71

Post by anexprogrammer » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:15 AM UTC

fleitz wrote: post #32

Oh fuck this shit, I was poor and I saved by buying rice in bulk and toilet paper in bulk, and everything as cheap as possible. Seriously, you have to be really fucked up to not be able to put away $25 for rice. If you're poor and not taking advantage of every savings you can I really don't know how one expects to become not poor. If you're so poor as to not be able to afford a large pack of toilet paper, sacrifice o…

Wow. Not everything is clear black and white you know. Your single experience does not cover everyone else's. Let's ignore any depression or anything else stemming from long term poverty that makes things worse, or at least less clear cut.

> they make really bad financial decisions

A lot of the time they KNOW they are making poor financial decisions. Imagine there is barely enough money coming in each month, the kids need to eat, the cooker just broke, the mortgage/rent is due, and you don't have money to solve all of those. So, make a sensible financial decision please, one that is not going to worsen your lot. A second hand cooker is only £50

Sorry kids, no more hot food? Just instant noodles for all for a week, so we can buy the old cooker?

Sometimes the choice is between a poor decision, a bad decision and a really stupid one.

The thing about poverty, especially long term poverty, is it completely takes away your ability to survive an emergency. That could be as simple as an appliance or transport failure. It's the crisis that generally fucks people up. The first three months, whilst the budgets remain credible and intact, is something any fool can cope with.

Most parents I've known would put themselves into penury and risk malnutrition to keep half decent food in their kids' bellies daily. Oftentimes knowing full well, and with due consideration, that they are making their future a little (perhaps a lot) harder.

And just in case you are thinking, but why have kids if so poor? Maybe there was a good job when the kids arrived. Before the recession, accident, or before dad died or whatever.

Yeah, it's easy man.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#72

Post by ghaff » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:16 AM UTC

tostitos1979 wrote: post #21

Naritai wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To continue your point: Having the credit score to get a good mortgage. Living in a good zip code, and so your car/home insurance is cheaper. Living in a good zip code, so you can send your kids to public school. Living in a good zip code, so you don't need an expensive security system. Working for a company that provides high-quality health care plans with low deductibles. Owning a newish car, that is much less like…

I generally agree with what has been said. Except for the car part. I thought it was best to drive a car to the ground. I buy reasonably priced sedans for around 20K (but brand new). Full coverage car warranties seem to end after 3 years. I sold my last car at that point (it had started to give me headaches). I got about half the money back .. so 10K loss or 3333 per year. Our current car is also at 3 years and start…

A lot of warranties have gotten longer. I just had something fixed that sneaked in under a 5-year powertrain warranty and probably wouldn't have been cheap. However, in general, leaving aside the question of buying new vs. used, it's usually pretty economical to hold today's cars for a pretty long time.

To be sure, there's a certain cost in time and inconvenience in decreasing reliability. And it's always a bit of a crapshoot (which I've typically let go on a beat or two too long) at the point where it's time to get rid of the thing. But I've been mostly happy with buying new and driving it until I start to run into ongoing issues.

(Currently I have a '97 Honda with about 170K on it but I admittedly don't drive it on salted roads any longer or take it on long road trips.)

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#73

Post by zelcon5 » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:19 AM UTC

dangerlibrary wrote: post #2

Terry Pratchett said it very well: “The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten d…

As the landlord of a small building in a poor neighborhood, I cannot tell you how true this copypasta is. It really has calloused my sympathy for the poor. Poor people are poor because they live beyond their means. Save for extreme talent, intelligence (+2 σ above mean), or lottery-winner luck, there isn't really a general way to make more income without investment (i.e., having money). So for a non-intelligent average person born from a poor family to become middle+ class, the only way is to grow savings (in order to invest) by living within or below one's means.

But these people have different priorities. Or maybe they do wish to improve their lot but lack the executive functions to skip costly partying/restaurants/weed/gambling/whatever. A little part of me dies inside when a tenant tells me they can't pay the rest of the rent until X date and pulls out a iPhone 6S to show me on the calendar.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#74

Post by ryanmarsh » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:19 AM UTC

One day I needed to pick up a few things on the way to a party. Was passing through a bad part of town and figured I'd stop at the only grocery store. Surely they have the basics, beer, snacks, etc... To make a long story short, I left without buying anything because the prices were more than I was willing to pay.

I ended up wandering around the store comparing the prices to what I pay in my neighborhood. Almost everything was more expensive. I have no idea how the lower class folks in that neighborhood eat.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#75

Post by ryanmarsh » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:20 AM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #74

One day I needed to pick up a few things on the way to a party. Was passing through a bad part of town and figured I'd stop at the only grocery store. Surely they have the basics, beer, snacks, etc... To make a long story short, I left without buying anything because the prices were more than I was willing to pay. I ended up wandering around the store comparing the prices to what I pay in my neighborhood. Almost ever…

For the record, it was a Fiesta (that's the name of the grocery chain) in Houston.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#76

Post by khuey » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:21 AM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #23

jimktrains2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just about to post this because it said there was no comments and when I opened it you had just beaten me to it! I would like to note that it was from the book "Men at Arms". The older I get the more I see this. Paying upfront to get a lower rate on your mortgage. Having money to begin with to manage well to get a good rate on a mortgage to start with. Having the flexibility in general to try something that may…

This also plays out with many mutual funds: below a certain volume of money, fees are everywhere, the more you have, the fewer the fees are.

True historically, but Vanguard et al have fixed this.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#77

Post by ars » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:26 AM UTC

parenthephobia wrote: post #70

ars wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you said, you didn't read the article. It's usually better not to comment if you have not. But I'll help you out: Implied was that they had enough money to buy in bulk for multiple months, but had wasted it on other things by the time the end of the month came. There was another class of people who could not do even that, and could only buy for that one month, they could not buy in bulk at any time. (Which is wh…

The article didn't imply anything like that to me. Where it mentioned buying in bulk it mentioned two classes of people: people who could not buy in bulk at all, and people who did buy in bulk at the beginning of the month, if the option was available, but could not do so at the end. If you could point at the paragraph which led you to believe it implied the poor were unable to afford bulk purchases due to "wasting"…

> two classes of people

There are three. There are also those who can buy in bulk for multiple months.

"And the poor often can't afford to do that — to pay $24 for a 30-pack instead of $5 for a four-pack. Then, because they can't stock up, they can't afford to wait until the next sale comes around."

30/4 = 7.5. i.e. implying a multi month purchase. Also "the next sale comes around": at least by me sales are on a multi month schedule, not a monthly schedule.

> If you could point at the paragraph which led you to believe it implied the poor were unable to afford bulk purchases due to "wasting" their money, that'd be great.

That's just it - I don't think she realized she said that. It would not be in keeping with the rest of what she wrote.

And yet, her advice to stores to have sales "at the start of the month" does in fact imply that. I assume it was inadvertent, but I called attention to it because she did write it.

I think she would have preferred to advise stores to have sales on a monthly schedule instead of a multi-month schedule. That would be more in line with the rest of her article.

(Convincing stores to do that would be tough - they would have to stock medium quantities of many items, instead of large quantities of a few. That hurts their purchasing power and increases their labor costs.)

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#78

Post by dnautics » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:27 AM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #51

cubano wrote: post #14

The poor get financially hosed in so many different ways in the US that singling out toilet paper , of all things, seems almost laughable. How about real killers, like payday loans, bank fees, and paying more for milk, eggs, and everything else at the corner store because you don't have transportation to get to Costco? And if you want next level hosedom, how about the opportunity cost of having limited or no transpor…

How about more things? Credit, which was literally created to hose the poor. How about goddamn product marketing which merely has the effect 1) robbing poor people of their time and 2) jacking up costs of goods at the expense of 1? It's all wrong.

I always thought credit was created by merchants to screw the nobility. If there's anything that screws the poor, it's inflation.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#79

Post by zelcon5 » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:31 AM UTC

harryh wrote: post #22

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #7

Some destitute-college-student friends were telling me that they lived on a $20/week of rice + beans + canned tomatoes; I suggested that I take them out to Costco and for $100 stuff their pantries with ~3 months of supplies. They patiently explained to idiot me that the reason they ate so poorly was because finding $100 was effectively impossible.

None of these college friends have any access to credit at all? I find that very hard to believe. How are they paying for college?

Of course they truly have access to funds but already blew it all on frivolities by the time they realized they needed to buy groceries.

Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else

#80

Post by dnautics » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 3:32 AM UTC

tostitos1979 wrote: post #21

Naritai wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To continue your point: Having the credit score to get a good mortgage. Living in a good zip code, and so your car/home insurance is cheaper. Living in a good zip code, so you can send your kids to public school. Living in a good zip code, so you don't need an expensive security system. Working for a company that provides high-quality health care plans with low deductibles. Owning a newish car, that is much less like…

I generally agree with what has been said. Except for the car part. I thought it was best to drive a car to the ground. I buy reasonably priced sedans for around 20K (but brand new). Full coverage car warranties seem to end after 3 years. I sold my last car at that point (it had started to give me headaches). I got about half the money back .. so 10K loss or 3333 per year. Our current car is also at 3 years and start…

Buy a hnda next time. I had a bad honda (civic hybrid 1st gen 1st model year) lasted 6 years and 170k... Currently driving an 2 gen insight, did a year and a half of tough Lyft driving in it, it's going really strong with >200k with no sign of giving up the ghost.