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Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

syonyk.blogspot.com

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Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#181

Post by angryasian »

ryandrake wrote: post #45

One of the things that makes a car valuable is having a healthy aftermarket. It looks like, from this article anyway, Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles. To me, a car that you can't service yourself is worthless. A car that needs the manufacturer's permission to activate is not your car--it's owned by the manufacturer. And, when the manufacturer places a threateni…

this is incorrect. Teslas have very little depreciation. Trying to buy a preowned or used is still very pricey. At least at this time. I think people that buy 100k car are less inclined to care about the after market value. The people probably also don't care to service the car themselves. Even at 40k I think this probably still holds true.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#182

Post by embro »

alistairSH wrote: post #170
wdr1 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles This seems to fly in the face of evidence, considering Tesla directly facilitates aftermarket sales: teslamotors.com/models/preowned

Two different things. In the context of the parent, aftermarket means parts available from non-OEMs. I can go to the local NAPA and get spark-plugs for my Jeep produced by multiple companies.

Yes, they better have it, Jeeps are worthless peices of junk. I've owned a CJ, a YJ and two TJ and would never recommend it to anyone.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#183

Post by angryasian »

Spooky23 wrote: post #71

It's pretty easy. They don't want an aftermarket for the cars because the batteries will wear out, essentially cannot be replaced, and you'll see lots of Teslas in the side of the road. I still don't understand why these cars exist. You pay a premium that vastly exceeds the fuel savings vs a comperable gasoline vehicle. The warm fuzzy feeling associated with saving the earth is low value to me. They also aren't magic…

>You pay a premium that vastly exceeds the fuel savings vs a comperable gasoline vehicle.

You pay the premium to help push the electric / clean car initiative.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#184

Post by pjc50 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #77

So maybe this is a dumb question but does this mean that whomever builds an "open" EV will win in the long run? My guess is not and people will just get locked into their "platform" vehicle in the same way that you are locked into Apple devices.

I think you're right; openness is a cost to the manufacturer and a missed opportunity for market lockin.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#185

Post by bliti »

greendesk wrote: post #179

I remembered this story when reading the article: A boy wants to repair his dad's printer. As he troubleshoots the problem, he calls a repair shops with the information on the printer. The repair shops gives him guidance on how to repair the printer on his own and sends the parts for it. The boy asks: "Why would you do it? Would not you make more money by asking me to have it repaired at the shop?" "Oh, but when peop…

What guarantee do you have that Tesla has has a higher than average repair success? Other, more experienced auto makers are also hit or miss.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#186

Post by userbinator »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #172
BufordTJustice wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Armin is right; further more, I suspect a lot of technology like MegaSquirt will continue to improve, and we'll have (thank god) aftermarket ECMs to put into these cars to give the user more control over the vehicle. We can only hope that a similar movement to Linux on PCs builds up steam up in the automotive space, as many of us like being able to understand, adapt, and improve on our vehicles.

Until you need verified checksums to drive on a public road. Using public infrastructure is a privilege, not a right.

If you're going to go down that route (no pun intended), why not eventually ban everything but officially certified driverless cars from public roads? I suppose it gets into a bit of a philosophical question at some point --- some people just want to get from A to B as quickly as possible (with whatever currently technology allows), while others actually enjoy the driving experience and having control over their vehicle. Some might want the former at times, and the latter at some other times. The former is certainly going to be much safer than the latter, but you give up freedom. Personally, I prefer the latter even if it means I could get killed at any moment because the risk is all part of the experience; not only of driving but really just life itself.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#187

Post by zyxley »

ryandrake wrote: post #45

One of the things that makes a car valuable is having a healthy aftermarket. It looks like, from this article anyway, Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles. To me, a car that you can't service yourself is worthless. A car that needs the manufacturer's permission to activate is not your car--it's owned by the manufacturer. And, when the manufacturer places a threateni…

> I think we're going to start seeing "jailbroken" Teslas soon after they start falling out of their warranty period.

This seems particularly likely for the Model 3, given the likely "everyday supernerd" demographic, and simple missing features like working ODB-II interfaces [1].

1: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17973-Can-Mone...

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#188

Post by toomuchtodo »

userbinator wrote: post #186
toomuchtodo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you need verified checksums to drive on a public road. Using public infrastructure is a privilege, not a right.

If you're going to go down that route (no pun intended), why not eventually ban everything but officially certified driverless cars from public roads? I suppose it gets into a bit of a philosophical question at some point --- some people just want to get from A to B as quickly as possible (with whatever currently technology allows), while others actually enjoy the driving experience and having control over their vehi…

> If you're going to go down that route (no pun intended), why not eventually ban everything but officially certified driverless cars from public roads?

I agree. That's the way its going to go. People kill 40K/people a year in the US simply driving, and injure/maim hundreds of thousands. There's no way self-driving cars aren't better than that.

Want to build your vroom vroom car? Own the entire stack down to the atoms? You'll get to drive it at track day at a track, not on a public road.

> Personally, I prefer the latter even if it means I could get killed at any moment because the risk is all part of the experience; not only of driving but really just life itself.

Agree, but that sentiment will die a slow death over the next few decades, just as those fond of the horse and buggy are no longer with us.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#189

Post by Amezarak »

userbinator wrote: post #63
ryandrake wrote: post #45

One of the things that makes a car valuable is having a healthy aftermarket. It looks like, from this article anyway, Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles. To me, a car that you can't service yourself is worthless. A car that needs the manufacturer's permission to activate is not your car--it's owned by the manufacturer. And, when the manufacturer places a threateni…

You'd think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for On the other hand, it could just be that those who want to really own their cars would not consider buying a Tesla anyway, and those who have the skills are too scared of the legal aspects. I think at the moment, electric cars are st…

At least for me, it's not about souping the car up, it's about doing repairs and maintenance myself because a) it's cheaper and b) it's more convenient.

If I knew I was going to have to drive a car to the dealership anytime something went wrong, I would not buy that car. It's a big hassle (especially if the dealership is any distance away) and almost always outrageously expensive for anything outside of warranty. And if it's something that I can't do myself, I'd rather take it to a cheaper local mechanic I know and trust.

According to the article, Teslas only have service manuals available in Massachusetts (and there only on an extremely expensive subscription basis), no independent shops, and doesn't have a working OBD-II port. That sounds like a nightmare to me.

Granted, it's way out of my price range anyway. ;)

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#190

Post by csours »

roflchoppa wrote: post #169
userbinator wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for On the other hand, it could just be that those who want to really own their cars would not consider buying a Tesla anyway, and those who have the skills are too scared of the legal aspects. I think at the moment, electric cars are st…

you know now i really wanna see a LS1 swapped tesla.

No, man, just put a turbo on it! /j
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