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Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#81

Post by 50CNT »

is_it_worth_it_ wrote: post #42
VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted because you're being a racist buffoon. Yes, there is genetic variation across traits, this is a fact. That said, we are all heavily influenced by our environments and to discount this incredibly formative factor of all human life is ridiculous. Culture, poverty, exposure to crime, and endless cycle of poor parenting, whatever it may be - there are a million things that can and DO get in the way…

Case in point right here. Somehow there is this big conspiracy where certain groups of people, unanimously across the world, across all of human time, do worse than other groups of people. The whole world is in on it, and we must fix it!

Who are you talking about, Africa? The middle east? South-east Asia? Europe?

Well, since I'm German, let's take the eurocentric approach. When we were walking around in furs scalping Romans, Africa was going pretty strong, wasn't it. China was going strong. The middle east was a major power. At that point, you could feasibly say that the Germanic savages were unanimously across the world, across all human time (eg. the last 200 years), doing worse than other groups of people. We just did kinda well, hit or miss, over the last 1000 years, which across the timescales humanity has been existing, isn't that much.

Other areas haven't been as lucky. Native Americans (last 200 years), Africa (last 300 years), China (last 200 years), the Ottoman empire (last 100 years), Russia (last 100 years) but hell, Austria isn't as hot as it was 100 years ago. But China is bouncing back, Africa is bouncing back, India is bouncing back.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#82

Post by redthrowaway »

zephharben wrote: post #64
redthrowaway wrote: post #47

Why is it the responsibility of the companies to fix this? In the same way that it seems perverse that Apple is the one standing up to the USG on privacy, why do companies bear the moral responsibility for fixing social ills? The only way a company should be responsible for hiring underrepresented minorities is if there was a market inefficiency to be exploited. And even then, that's a responsibility to their shareho…

Companies don't bear any moral responsibilities - people do Hiring managers and executives should use all of the tools at their disposal in the context of recruitment and hiring - including moral and ethical judgement. Setting moral responsibilities aside - if you want to hire talented, passionate engineers like me, you will get serious about building teams with people from diverse backgrounds.

>if you want to hire talented, passionate engineers like me, you will get serious about building teams with people from diverse backgrounds.

There's a pretty major leap in logic, there. What does diversity have to do with talented, passionate engineering teams? Companies like Honda and Toyota have some of the least diverse engineering teams on the planet, and yet they have a well-earned reputation for engineering excellence.

You may want a company to take diversity seriously, and there are many others who feel the same way. But it doesn't follow that maximizing diversity is therefor an imperative for companies that want to have world-class teams. In fact diversity seems to be orthogonal to competence.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#83

Post by aikah »

kamau wrote: post #72
aikah wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "only black person in the room" I can't begin to understand how it is an issue, and I'm black (and European). I don't care about the color or the sex of my coworkers. What difference does it make? you can't relate to white people? No the main issue is networking and going out of one's own "sphere" or microcosm. > So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace If they…

> I can't begin to understand how it is an issue, and I'm black (and European). I don't care about the color or the sex of my coworkers. What difference does it make? you can't relate to white people? No the main issue is networking and going out of one's own "sphere" or microcosm. Read my comment later, where I mentioned that I have more white friends than black friends. I have no problem with white people. And no,…

First, I must say, whoever is downvoting you it's not me.

> Instead, I was describing a very real phenomenom which may have been overlooked in the article.

Ok, I understand and I agree with you then.

> Not sure if you or I should say what those students should be worrying about. I think you may be missing my point. I made no mention about what those students should do. Instead, I talked about what they may be doing.

Agreed.

> Actually that came from my personal experience (and that of many other POC) of trusting people who are not my kin, and then having race be brought up in a way that was detrimental to me.

You know it happened to me too and no need to say that in Europe people are less PC than in US. That's of course unacceptable and every time it happened I fought it. It's often more ignorance than ideology, i.e. casual racism. What I'm seriously worried about is all that "reverse racism" that is also becoming casual in US. It doesn't build trust between cultures/minorities, It's just making things worse in my opinion.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#84

Post by duaneb »

protomyth wrote: post #50
duaneb wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They talk about being polite, wearing a suit, grooming, etc. Yikes, that's even worse. Some cultures will actively hold a suit against a candidate. I can't say I agree with that, but it's a little scary that they're giving stock advice to a highly dynamic field, very little of which is relevant. (Polite is good, being relaxed is better. Being suited is good, being comfortable is better.)

There are still quite a few places that will reject a candidate out of hand for not wearing a suit. I find that troubling, just as I would find the opposite troubling. Well, stock advise is basically what text book publishers do.

> There are still quite a few places that will reject a candidate out of hand for not wearing a suit. I find that troubling, just as I would find the opposite troubling.

Agreed, this is an indication of toxic culture on both sides.

HOWEVER. I would say aside from the grooming bit, the whiteboarding advice is the best possible advice for anyone. My mother can happily tell me to wear a suit, but she's not in a position to educate me about my field. A school had better fucking be, or what is the point? The technical knowledge—if they teach it at all—is itself is easier gained online than from a school.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#85

Post by myohan »

beat wrote: post #46
bobosha wrote: post #6

It amazes me that "..they discovered that many black and Hispanic students, unlike white and Asian ones, had never heard of this type of interview and were unprepared for it..." How could any programmer worth his/her salt would not know about a whiteboard interview? I think that statement encapsulates it. No only are the schools they are graduating from are woefully inadequate, and they are entering a highly competit…

One of my best friends for the past 25 years is a very successful black man - a medical doctor, hospital administrator, and finance nerd. Back when he was in med school, he got arrested in a dormitory laundromat for stealing laundry . Cuffed and kept in jail overnight, because someone else left their socks in his washing machine. That sort of thing just doesn't happen to white medical students. The kind of aggression…

well put!!!

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#86

Post by norea-armozel »

eip wrote: post #77
VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted because you're being a racist buffoon. Yes, there is genetic variation across traits, this is a fact. That said, we are all heavily influenced by our environments and to discount this incredibly formative factor of all human life is ridiculous. Culture, poverty, exposure to crime, and endless cycle of poor parenting, whatever it may be - there are a million things that can and DO get in the way…

Blacks make up 13% of the population in the US but 75% of NBA players and 67% of NFL players. Do you think white peoples under representation in US pro sports is more due to genetics or environmental influence? Having worked in Sillycon Valley for a long time I think it's funny/sad how the whole scene pretends to be PC about race and diversity issues when pretty much all the tech employees there are white or Indian m…

In the 1930s the majority of basketball players were Jews. So, race has little to do with sports performance at least in basketball.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#87

Post by fgandiya »

It's times like these when I think to myself why I'm bothering to enter this field? I mean, I really wanna go into the tech feel to make awesome stuff, but hearing how hard it is for people who look like me (black African college student in the mid west) just gets me down.

Then again, software engineering has only been a thing for about 40-50 odd years and is young as compared to other professions, so I guess things will change.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#88

Post by aikah »

is_it_worth_it_ wrote: post #13

Is nobody willing to acknowledge the reality of genetically inherited IQ? It's like all of our political system is designed around subverting this reality. I suppose society that openly accepts this reality would lead to instability? Is that why we hide the truth, that in fact, yes your genetics do matter? Why do we know about how evolution works, but turn a blind eye to the fact that different pools of genetics have…

> Is nobody willing to acknowledge the reality of genetically inherited IQ?

What are you saying? are you really saying the lighter the skin the more "intelligent" one is? Ceteris paribus ? you know it's ridiculous and you know where this kind of "pseudo-scientific" ideology leads.

> Is that why we hide the truth,

What truth ? racism ? Ask yourself ,did you come to that conclusion after researching the topic or where you seeking arguments to fuel and rationalize your pre-existing bigotry ? Because with the same arguments you could make the same case to justify sexism or antisemitism. Yes for the nazis, the "vile" nature of the jews came from their genes.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#89

Post by dang »

kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

> hostility masked as objectivity

Well put. Thanks for posting valuable comments instead of responding in kind—it greatly improved this thread.

It takes longer for reflective and informative comments to show up than it does for reflexive ones, but they do eventually. It takes time to think and write something good. And often a thoughtful comment only gets posted because someone feels compelled to reply to a glib one. Here's an example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11184489.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#90

Post by uncletaco »

eip wrote: post #77
VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted because you're being a racist buffoon. Yes, there is genetic variation across traits, this is a fact. That said, we are all heavily influenced by our environments and to discount this incredibly formative factor of all human life is ridiculous. Culture, poverty, exposure to crime, and endless cycle of poor parenting, whatever it may be - there are a million things that can and DO get in the way…

Blacks make up 13% of the population in the US but 75% of NBA players and 67% of NFL players. Do you think white peoples under representation in US pro sports is more due to genetics or environmental influence? Having worked in Sillycon Valley for a long time I think it's funny/sad how the whole scene pretends to be PC about race and diversity issues when pretty much all the tech employees there are white or Indian m…

> What's even funnier is that white people are only a small percentage of world population but have the audacity to refer to all other races as 'minorities'.

I am fairly certain that is because they are often referring to other races in their own countries. If you live in the US, most of your news is about North America and Europe, both continents that are predominantly filled with white people.

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