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Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#51

Post by [deleted] »

bobosha wrote: post #44
protomyth wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How could any programmer worth his/her salt would not know about a whiteboard interview? A lot of schools don't teach anything about interviewing. Its not academic. In fact, a lot of the training videos used in schools that do teach "job skills" to prepare students make no mention of white board interviews. They talk about being polite, wearing a suit, grooming, etc. Judging an academic program on if they have ever…

A whiteboard is just a proxy for ability to think on one's feet and problem solve under pressure. It could just as well have been a workstation, a paper and pen....

[deleted]

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#52

Post by is_it_worth_it_ »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #45
is_it_worth_it_ wrote: post #13

Is nobody willing to acknowledge the reality of genetically inherited IQ? It's like all of our political system is designed around subverting this reality. I suppose society that openly accepts this reality would lead to instability? Is that why we hide the truth, that in fact, yes your genetics do matter? Why do we know about how evolution works, but turn a blind eye to the fact that different pools of genetics have…

HBD has been generally disregarded as bunk science. I have yet to see anything otherwise that isn't on some vaguely conspiratorial and mostly self-referential blog somewhere.

Really? Scientifically it has been proven over and over. It just isn't mainstream.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#53

Post by bobosha »

protomyth wrote: post #48
bobosha wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A whiteboard is just a proxy for ability to think on one's feet and problem solve under pressure. It could just as well have been a workstation, a paper and pen....

which aren't taught either in the context of a job interview - watch some of the "amazing", "real life" training videos you can get from book publishers.

if you need to be taught that...then you know the answer.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#54

Post by [deleted] »

falsestprophet wrote: post #24
kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

" tech is very very white " Sure tech is generally non-black, but there are load of East Asians and South Asians. It's not exactly the Augusta National Golf Club. There are a lot of places in corporate information technology in the US where tech is "very very" Indian and a white or black or hispanic person may very well be the only non-Indian (or even US citizen or permanent resident) in the room or on the team.

[deleted]

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#55

Post by [deleted] »

falsestprophet wrote: post #24
kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

" tech is very very white " Sure tech is generally non-black, but there are load of East Asians and South Asians. It's not exactly the Augusta National Golf Club. There are a lot of places in corporate information technology in the US where tech is "very very" Indian and a white or black or hispanic person may very well be the only non-Indian (or even US citizen or permanent resident) in the room or on the team.

[deleted]

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#56

Post by ThrustVectoring »

fixermark wrote: post #38
Archio wrote: post #15

It pains me greatly that the tech industry lacks diversity from minorities like blacks, hispanics, and women. However, I strongly believe that looking at the tech companies and asking why they don't hire more minorities is totally missing the real problem. This is of course one datapoint, but the university I went to (top engineering school in the Northeast US) hosts a big panel for computer-field majors at the annua…

The sentiment is sometimes expressed as "The pipeline is leaky and full of acid." While true, it doesn't imply that companies should just sit on their hands and wait for the system to be fixed around them. Companies are the core of the power structure economically; they need to be taking an active role in fixing their pipelines.

Uh, what? Tech companies aren't obviously the correct place to be applying leverage. They could already be hiring more women and minorities than you'd expect given STEM interest levels in high school. If the fundamental problem is that something is happening to people before graduating high school, I'd take a much more critical look at schooling, child-rearing, and cultural factors.

Schooling is particularly worrying - it's got a troubling focus on instilling conformity, and AFAIK that's both more effective on women and particularly damaging to creative work like computer programming.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#57

Post by mlkjr »

michaelbuddy wrote: post #4
zenplatypus wrote: post #2

It is vaguely mentioned in the article but I think controlling for the type of schools that students are exiting from is an important factor in determining if there is a "pipeline" problem. For example it was mentioned that Black and Hispanic Tech graduates are more likely to end up in office support roles. Out of the top 20 engineering/computer science programs in the country I doubt almost any students are ending u…

what systemic problem though? I'm hearing systemic a lot and it's more often looking suspiciously like a way to create a ghost that can't be fought so let's throw more money at any and every program to make a show of it.

How would you know if it is a ghost or not? Would statistics help? I don't think there any tangible statistics on ghosts, are there?

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#58

Post by zephharben »

jimmywanger wrote: post #10
zenplatypus wrote: post #2

It is vaguely mentioned in the article but I think controlling for the type of schools that students are exiting from is an important factor in determining if there is a "pipeline" problem. For example it was mentioned that Black and Hispanic Tech graduates are more likely to end up in office support roles. Out of the top 20 engineering/computer science programs in the country I doubt almost any students are ending u…

Occam's razor. Is there a problem in our entire society and schooling system, or are Black and Hispanic backgrounds a liability because of the views and attitudes they have/teach?

You nailed it - there is a problem in our entire society and schooling system.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#59

Post by afarrell »

Archio wrote: post #15

It pains me greatly that the tech industry lacks diversity from minorities like blacks, hispanics, and women. However, I strongly believe that looking at the tech companies and asking why they don't hire more minorities is totally missing the real problem. This is of course one datapoint, but the university I went to (top engineering school in the Northeast US) hosts a big panel for computer-field majors at the annua…

One idea might be to identify majority-black and majority-hispanic schools who don't have a computer science program and and establish a fund which can either pay the schools directly to establish them or set up well-advertised after-school programs to try to fill the gap.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#60

Post by fixermark »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #56
fixermark wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentiment is sometimes expressed as "The pipeline is leaky and full of acid." While true, it doesn't imply that companies should just sit on their hands and wait for the system to be fixed around them. Companies are the core of the power structure economically; they need to be taking an active role in fixing their pipelines.

Uh, what? Tech companies aren't obviously the correct place to be applying leverage. They could already be hiring more women and minorities than you'd expect given STEM interest levels in high school. If the fundamental problem is that something is happening to people before graduating high school, I'd take a much more critical look at schooling, child-rearing, and cultural factors. Schooling is particularly worrying…

I think you're misunderstanding: I'm not talking about tech companies changing their hiring goals. I'm talking about tech companies reaching out to schools (college, high school, middle school level) to get a sense of what they need and to help them give students the opportunities to pursue computer science and other technological careers based on their interest.

There's a knowledge and understanding gap on both sides---both in terms of what companies understand about how students are prepared and what schools understand about what skillsets students need to excel in technology fields. It turns out outreach and active participation can be valuable to bridge that gap.

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