Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
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Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#2It is vaguely mentioned in the article but I think controlling for the type of schools that students are exiting from is an important factor in determining if there is a "pipeline" problem. For example it was mentioned that Black and Hispanic Tech graduates are more likely to end up in office support roles. Out of the top 20 engineering/computer science programs in the country I doubt almost any students are ending up in those type of roles. So likely Black and Hispanic "Tech" graduates are much less likely to be of top engineering programs. There is an enrollment issue. There is a corporate bias and culture issue. There is a primary school issue... the list goes on.
From working in management consulting I can tell you that even when name-blind resume reads are incorporated and diversity programs are really emphasized (Which they are), the issue comes to when candidates from Black and Hispanic backgrounds show up to an interview they are relatively VERY poorly prepared. This is usually because the student groups at elite colleges that prepare you for tech/consulting/banking jobs are pretty bad at reaching out to minority (Black and Hispanic) students.
The problem is systemic from pre-school to the career fair. I believe it will change. But no one lever will do the full trick.
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#3Is working as a computer programmer economically rational for high performing black and hispanic students in the United States?
Black and hispanic students benefit from preferential admissions standards to medical, law, business and other graduate schools that can lead to higher salaries and higher social standing than computer programming.
Consider the extreme case of black students and medical school:
Black students who are competitive candidates for software engineering at top tech companies could (probably all) choose to study medicine and, very possibly, be admitted to specialist residency programs.
Average specialist pay is $284,000. Average primary care pay is $195,000.
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#4It is vaguely mentioned in the article but I think controlling for the type of schools that students are exiting from is an important factor in determining if there is a "pipeline" problem. For example it was mentioned that Black and Hispanic Tech graduates are more likely to end up in office support roles. Out of the top 20 engineering/computer science programs in the country I doubt almost any students are ending u…
what systemic problem though? I'm hearing systemic a lot and it's more often looking suspiciously like a way to create a ghost that can't be fought so let's throw more money at any and every program to make a show of it.
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#5Is working as a computer programmer economically rational for high performing black and hispanic students in the United States? Black and hispanic students benefit from preferential admissions standards to medical, law, business and other graduate schools that can lead to higher salaries and higher social standing than computer programming. Consider the extreme case of black students and medical school: Black student…
Medicine has many more barriers to entry: schooling, debt, etc.
I'm a white high school dropout, but I got a developer position at age 27 after rushing through a CS degree later in live which took about ~3 years. I work 40 hours a week and get a very livable $100k+ salary plus stock and benefits with negligible student debt all things considered (~$30k).
My point being, in a vacuum, getting on track to making a good wage as a developer has a lot fewer barriers with the lack of medical school and debt. Not to mention the free time I have outside of work and regular hours. Salary isn't everything.
I cannot speak for people of color and their experience who want to go through the same process as me. There are all kinds of barriers they experience that I don't. Neil DeGrasse Tyson (I know, I know...) had a good answer to the silly question "What's with chicks in science?", and the cultural / systemic barriers he had to go through to reach that point in life [1].
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#6It amazes me that "..they discovered that many black and Hispanic students, unlike white and Asian ones, had never heard of this type of interview and were unprepared for it..."
How could any programmer worth his/her salt would not know about a whiteboard interview? I think that statement encapsulates it. No only are the schools they are graduating from are woefully inadequate, and they are entering a highly competitive field that with a fast changing landscape that is overwhelming for such grossly underprepared grads.
Ask yourself how come Asians & Jews do so well? They just work harder and push themselves more. I am as bleeding heart a liberal as they come and it pains me to see the lack of diversity, but culture has a huge part to play in it.
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#7It amazes me that "..they discovered that many black and Hispanic students, unlike white and Asian ones, had never heard of this type of interview and were unprepared for it..." How could any programmer worth his/her salt would not know about a whiteboard interview? I think that statement encapsulates it. No only are the schools they are graduating from are woefully inadequate, and they are entering a highly competit…
Yea the whiteboard comment surprised me a lot.
I've never had an interview without it, and/or some kind of take home coding test.
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#8It amazes me that "..they discovered that many black and Hispanic students, unlike white and Asian ones, had never heard of this type of interview and were unprepared for it..." How could any programmer worth his/her salt would not know about a whiteboard interview? I think that statement encapsulates it. No only are the schools they are graduating from are woefully inadequate, and they are entering a highly competit…
>Ask yourself how come Asians & Jews do so well? They just work harder and push themselves more.
Wait, is it that or are the schools "woefully inadequate"??
>No only are the schools they are graduating from are woefully inadequate,
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#9It amazes me that "..they discovered that many black and Hispanic students, unlike white and Asian ones, had never heard of this type of interview and were unprepared for it..." How could any programmer worth his/her salt would not know about a whiteboard interview? I think that statement encapsulates it. No only are the schools they are graduating from are woefully inadequate, and they are entering a highly competit…
Yea the whiteboard comment surprised me a lot. I've never had an interview without it, and/or some kind of take home coding test.
Fwiw, in the past 10 years, I've had 2 whiteboard interviews and the rest I was hired without.
Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs
#10It is vaguely mentioned in the article but I think controlling for the type of schools that students are exiting from is an important factor in determining if there is a "pipeline" problem. For example it was mentioned that Black and Hispanic Tech graduates are more likely to end up in office support roles. Out of the top 20 engineering/computer science programs in the country I doubt almost any students are ending u…
Occam's razor. Is there a problem in our entire society and schooling system, or are Black and Hispanic backgrounds a liability because of the views and attitudes they have/teach?