Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show • Hacker News Board

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#221

Post by brandonbloom » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

songshu wrote: post #137

We need badge-equivalent cameras. What I mean is that we need to make cameras work the same way as badges and uniforms, in the sense that you just can't do police work if you don't have a working camera. A working camera has a red light on it which means that it is currently streaming (possibly buffering if temporarily out of wireless range). The police don't have to record anything, they just need to stream somewher…

     you just can't do police work if you don't have a working camera

This is already becoming the policy in many forward thinking agencies.

    they just need to stream somewhere with associated meta data

There are real challenges, both technical and practical. Technically, you've got to worry about connectivity and battery life. Practically, somebody has to pay for it all! There's also many genuine use cases for turning off cameras during a shift, not the least of which is that officers have to use the bathroom just like the rest of us, but others like when talking to confidential informants or at the request of domestic abuse victims. None of these problems are insurmountable, but it's going to take time, energy, and money.

    I understand it will be hard to get unions to agree to this

That was true a few years ago, but now it's becoming very clear that the majority of decent officers want body cameras. They protect them individually and taxpayers against an endless stream of lawsuits. Google around: studies show that they work, very well, for reducing complaints and use-of-force incidents.

Disclaimer: I work on Axon body cameras in Seattle. If you (or anybody else!) are interested in writing code that will help put a camera and less-leathal weapon on every police officer, please email me: brandon@evidence.com

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#222

Post by bbarn » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

phil21 wrote: post #195

tres wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

couldn't figure out why you were downvoted, your comment seemed to add to the conversation... until I got to the GP sounds like one of these people, which may explain many of his experiences. I'm not sure where you get that from what was written in the post, or why you think it would add value to the conversation, but in the future, I'd recommend keeping in mind that unjustified accusations directed at individuals re…

Agreed that last sentence wasn't helpful, but neither are the downvotes for him explaining exactly what the situation likely was. Maybe the OP is a great cyclist. Maybe he's not. It's immaterial. What is material is trying to provide some context into why that happened, if it did. Lets just say as a fellow Chicago resident I also immediately had the same suspicions that you were responding to. I used to commute daily…

Cycling's a big part of my life. I've been involved in advocacy groups, racing organizations, commuted most of my life, etc. I'm also a fairly smart guy. I recognize the difference between being out training fast/racing, and riding my bike to work. The two things have different applications, and I do them in appropriate settings.

I think I'm a pretty great cyclist, and by great I mean that I know when to do what, and consider my impact on those around me as much as myself.

The problem here is this is just one example of the problem with police abuse in general. Police should be capable of not defaulting to biases against groups of people because they need to be by their job description. Whether that's "all bikers are entitled and actively dangerous" or "all blacks are suspicious unless otherwise proven", the sentiment is the same. They must be held to a higher standard of judgment because of the authority they are given.

PS - If everyone gave up cycling because they didn't want to be associated with those who do it poorly, not only would that be a shame, it'd leave nothing but the belligerents you speak of.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#223

Post by defofinsane » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

ghufran_syed wrote: post #17

pjc50 wrote: post #8

Until police are jailed for this, nothing will improve. What's the US equivalent of the Independent Police Complaints Commission?

Part of what stops police from routinely infringing civil rights in the pursuit of justice is the legal doctrine that evidence obtained illegally is inadmissible, as is all evidence gained from further (lawful) investigation based on that evidence [1]. what is needed is a law that operates in a similar way, that states that in any lawsuit or complaint against the police, there is a presumption of guilt on the part of…

Don't know, dead men have no standing in court.

American justice is a complete farce, any who appeal to it are either completely ignorant or somehow benefit from the status quo of corruption.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#224

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #207

bilbo0s wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be honest with you... Chicago is very much a place where you take your chances. You can live in Streeterville for example, as rayiner alluded to in another post... but what happens when you go out with friends??? What if they want to go someplace in say... Wrigleyville... some night??? You're walking back to your car, or trying to get a taxi back to the loop, and you cross too close in front of a police officer,…

It sounds exactly like Russia to me. Same level or corruption and danger to regular citizens.

I've always found vast similarities between the USA and Russia but it seems to bring on deep offence if you mention it to an average American.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#225

Post by stephencanon » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #151

grandalf wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We trust cops to protect the weak, to wield and use firearms, and to enforce our laws. This puts them in a tremendous position to abuse their power. The recording devices were installed precisely because abuses of power and criminal activity were already a big problem. The thugs destroyed the recording devices because they want to continue abusing their power, period. For an honest cop, the recordings offer proof of…

Cops are trained to establish control of a situation by being unfriendly, authoritative, and uncompromising. It could come across as bullying if you don't know what's going on.

Maybe we should be training them to be friendly, authoritative and reasonable instead. You don't need to be an asshole to exert control; in fact it's much easier to do so if you aren't.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#226

Post by tptacek » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

exstudent2 wrote: post #214

rhino369 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americas biggest problem in the inner cities. They are literally ghettos were gangs and violence run rampant. The schools are pure shit. The kids have no future. The cops crack down hard (half because they have to in order to maintain any semblance of peace, half because they become jaded). But that part of America is shockingly isolated from the rest of us. Chicago is a great example. There are blocks where on side…

> Americas biggest problem in the inner cities. This is absolutely not true. Have you ever lived in an inner city? Yes some people are fighting with each other but if you act respectfully, you'll be left alone. The police aren't cracking down because they "have to". They're cracking down (e.g. stop and frisk) because they're power hungry and ignorant. As someone who's lived in all manner of socioeconomic areas of the…

It's really not true that if you act respectfully in Englewood or North Lawndale that you'll be left alone.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#227

Post by exstudent2 » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 6:00 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #226

exstudent2 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americas biggest problem in the inner cities. This is absolutely not true. Have you ever lived in an inner city? Yes some people are fighting with each other but if you act respectfully, you'll be left alone. The police aren't cracking down because they "have to". They're cracking down (e.g. stop and frisk) because they're power hungry and ignorant. As someone who's lived in all manner of socioeconomic areas of the…

It's really not true that if you act respectfully in Englewood or North Lawndale that you'll be left alone.

It is true (as true as it can be anywhere). By all means keep making blanket generalizations though because it keeps neighborhoods like that cheap for people like me to live in. I've spent > decade living in "ghettos" and not once have had an incident with the locals. I have however been harassed by cops many times regardless of the neighborhood I'm in.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#228

Post by bilbo0s » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

Juz16 wrote: post #217

branchless wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say America just seems like a dreadful mess.

The thing to keep in mind is that America isn't as homogeneous as a European country, it's as diverse as the entire European continent. Would you say that Denmark is a dreadful mess because of the crime rate in Serbia? Probably not.

To be fair to branchless... Chicago's crime rate is not all that high. It certainly would not make a list of the top 50 crime cities in the US. Or even the top 100.

(http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/t...)

So, I'm thinking, branchless' thought process probably goes something like this... "If Chicago is this bad with crime and corruption... what must the rest of the US be like???"

Having mentioned that, other people are correct as well to point out that not ALL places will have the same level of corruption. Many, many places have far more corruption and crime than Chicago. And many, many places have far less corruption and crime than Chicago. But if you are from Western Europe, the mean level of corruption here in the US may be discomfiting to you.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#229

Post by atom_enger » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #220

callinyouin wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm moving to Chicago in a few months. Are there certain neighborhoods that should be avoided on the basis of corrupt police activity? I wonder because I could see neighborhoods that are relatively safe in terms of civilian crime, but cops posted in that area might have nothing better to do than mess with its inhabitants.

The quieter the neighborhood, the less likely it is you'll ever interact with a police officer. If you're in your mid-20s, the typical places to end up would be Uky Village, Logan Square, Roscoe Village, Lincoln Square, and Uptown. You wouldn't want to live in Streeterville or Edgewater for reasons beyond the number of police there. If you're seeing lots of police in Wrigleyville, it's because the neighborhood is ove…

Why wouldn't you suggest Edgewater? I'm over in West Ridge and it's not so bad.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#230

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 6:05 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #193

finid wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's that bad in Chicago, then what you have is not a police force, but a criminal organization. Who's overseeing them? Are your elected officials powerless to do any thing?

> then what you have is not a police force, but a criminal organization. This is the only reasonable conclusion, and it's neither new nor particularly controversial. The real question is: what to do about it?

Leave. Frictionless and painless. (I left Chicago after living there for ~2 decades)