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Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

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Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#191

Post by dragonwriter »

zeveb wrote: post #116
elthran wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this been proposed at all? Is there anything weird about american policing/law that would mean a national, federal agency wouldn't be able to take on this role?

It would be unconstitutional for the Congress to pass laws taking full oversight of state and local police (it's not one of the Congress's enumerated powers, and per the Tenth Amendment 'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.'). Sometimes police are found to have violated federal civil-rights law…

Actually, ensuring that states provide equal protection of the laws to all persons, that states do not deprive persons of life, liberty, or property without due process, and that states do not abridge the privileges and immunities of US citizens is an enumerated power of Congress; see the Fourteenth Amendment, particularly sections 1 and 5.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#192

Post by 0xffff2 »

pc86 wrote: post #48
ghufran_syed wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of what stops police from routinely infringing civil rights in the pursuit of justice is the legal doctrine that evidence obtained illegally is inadmissible, as is all evidence gained from further (lawful) investigation based on that evidence [1]. what is needed is a law that operates in a similar way, that states that in any lawsuit or complaint against the police, there is a presumption of guilt on the part of…

> Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments. See also Coffin v. United States and In re Winship. [0] One does not sign away Constitutional rights because they become a police officer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence#The_f...

What if consequences based on the presumption of guilt where limited to immediate termination and being placed on a list barring the accused from working as a police officer in the future? Is presumption of guilt allowed if there are no criminal penalties?

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#193

Post by jMyles »

finid wrote: post #164
bilbo0s wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be honest with you... Chicago is very much a place where you take your chances. You can live in Streeterville for example, as rayiner alluded to in another post... but what happens when you go out with friends??? What if they want to go someplace in say... Wrigleyville... some night??? You're walking back to your car, or trying to get a taxi back to the loop, and you cross too close in front of a police officer,…

If it's that bad in Chicago, then what you have is not a police force, but a criminal organization. Who's overseeing them? Are your elected officials powerless to do any thing?

> then what you have is not a police force, but a criminal organization.

This is the only reasonable conclusion, and it's neither new nor particularly controversial. The real question is: what to do about it?

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#194

Post by rhino369 »

coldtea wrote: post #51
CPLX wrote: post #21

Though I agree that this behavior is reprehensible and probably criminal, the comments here seem to miss at least some of the human dynamic here. I can't hardly imagine that most people posting here would ever consider a job where literally every word or sound that came out of their mouth during their entire working life was recorded, and likely subject to public disclosure. Saying that this is what cops signed up fo…

> I can't hardly imagine that most people posting here would ever consider a job where literally every word or sound that came out of their mouth during their entire working life was recorded, and likely subject to public disclosure. Well, if by "entire working life" you mean "every time they go in patrol or are on a call" then yes. Nobody is interested in their water cooler talks. > Saying that this is what cops sig…

>Well, if by "entire working life" you mean "every time they go in patrol or are on a call" then yes. Nobody is interested in their water cooler talks.

I may be off base here, but cops seem to be on patrol for almost their entire shift.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#195

Post by phil21 »

tres wrote: post #156
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lifelong Chicagoan here. I've never, ever had these issues and all my run-ins with cops have been fairly uneventful, if not pleasant. Chicago cops have better things to do than give traffic tickets usually and the last time I got pulled over (blew through red from a fast yellow) and I was just let go with a warning. Recently, there is a mentally unstable person in my neighborhood and he decided to sit on my porch and…

couldn't figure out why you were downvoted, your comment seemed to add to the conversation... until I got to the GP sounds like one of these people, which may explain many of his experiences. I'm not sure where you get that from what was written in the post, or why you think it would add value to the conversation, but in the future, I'd recommend keeping in mind that unjustified accusations directed at individuals re…

Agreed that last sentence wasn't helpful, but neither are the downvotes for him explaining exactly what the situation likely was.

Maybe the OP is a great cyclist. Maybe he's not. It's immaterial.

What is material is trying to provide some context into why that happened, if it did. Lets just say as a fellow Chicago resident I also immediately had the same suspicions that you were responding to.

I used to commute daily as a cyclist, until I moved here. I sold my bike, as I don't want to be associated with these people whatsoever. They are the most entitled, aggressive, and actively dangerous group of commuters I've witnessed. I've lived in Amsterdam. This is not how bikers should behave.

So to me, it was simply providing context to those who don't live here for stories that don't make any logical sense. Cyclists here get absolutely zero benefit of the doubt from me, and I imagine that attitude can get into a cop on a bad day as well. Certainly doesn't justify it, but it explains it.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#197

Post by __jal »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #123
__jal wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another poster already alluded to the point, but I'd like to make it explicit: if you believe Chicago is exceptional in this, you are wrong. The NYPD is almost as bad (as far as we know, the NYPD doesn't have an off-the-books torture chamber[1], rather preferring to sodomize arrestees with brooms in the regular jails on a more ad hoc basis). But just as life-destroying are the things that go on in smaller communities…

What about splitting the left with people who despise police unions and those who support all public sector unions 100% of the time?

If you can find someone who "support[s] all public sector unions 100% of the time", have a great time.

I'm sure there's someone out there, but I've never met them.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#198

Post by rhino369 »

CPLX wrote: post #21

Though I agree that this behavior is reprehensible and probably criminal, the comments here seem to miss at least some of the human dynamic here. I can't hardly imagine that most people posting here would ever consider a job where literally every word or sound that came out of their mouth during their entire working life was recorded, and likely subject to public disclosure. Saying that this is what cops signed up fo…

This is a great point. And there is a very easy compromise here. Make the tapes legally sealed from the public unless a judge issues an order to unseal it.

Re: Chicago Police Hid Mics, Destroyed Dashcams to Block Audio, Records Show

#199

Post by jschwartzi »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #94
pjc50 wrote: post #8

Until police are jailed for this, nothing will improve. What's the US equivalent of the Independent Police Complaints Commission?

The curious thing is that police-forces are paid for by state and local taxes. Why is no one advocating cutting their funding until come into compliance with certain higher standards?

Because if we do that the police become more susceptible to bribery. We can't simply punish whole departments for individual conduct. What we have to do is catch individual cops breaking their cameras and then fire them.
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