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What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

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Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#221

Post by gotchange »

sheraz wrote: post #168
pc86 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hold a door? I don't think holding a door has ever been seriously considered harassment. Yes, some people do get upset by it. > Wink ;-) in an email or IM? If you need emoticons in professional correspondence you should probably rethink what you're trying to say. I also don't think an emoticon has ever been considered harassment. > Tell an off-color joke? A. What's your definition of off-color? B. Unless you're a c…

...I think we have butted heads in other threads... ;-) I get emojis from our legal and marketing teams all the time. It is a part of office culture in many / most places I would imagine. Here is my off-color joke: Q. How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb? A. One. AND THATS NOT FUNNY! Yes, I can complement anyone I like. I don't need to have a pre-existing relationship to do so. Here is the problem…

> Yes, I can complement anyone I like. I don't need to have a pre-existing relationship to do so.

What if the other person doesn't want to hear your opinion or complements regarding a personal quality of his/her, would you stop and keep it to yourself or just keep embarrassing yourself till someone puts you in your right place?

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#222

Post by sheraz »

hluska wrote: post #204
sheraz wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there in lies the problem -- we are legislating about "feelings." We have delegated to the state what our personal responsibility should have been all along. "Hey, asshole -- keep it in your pants or I will tell the whole office that you went through an Asian-fetish. Now can we discuss this TPS report or not?" Secondly, a wink after something sexually suggestive is a little redundant, wouldn't you say?

You have stopped trying to be productive and are just being argumentative now. Your third and fourth paragraphs are in particularly poor taste. I don't understand what is so difficult here. Her manager harassed her and the fear and embarrassment that she felt were real. If the genders were reversed, the result would have been the same. That is because in a civilized society, if you act in a way that makes someone unc…

This whole topic is unproductive. We are "having an argument on the internet" :-)

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#223

Post by Ended »

y04nn wrote: post #147
hluska wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You feel like she is lacking self confidence??? That is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Her manager (aka 'someone with a disproportionate amount of control over her career') asked her to sit on his lap, talked about how 'everyone' has an Asian fetish at some point, and asked her out for dinner alone. She tolerated it up to a point and then went to HR. How in any possible sense of the term can t…

I'm trying to understand the behavior of the manager, there must be a rational explanation. He knew what it can lead him to. So for me, it may be that he was sexually attracted to her and she may not have shown enough rejection signs (cultural bias between the 2?). Also I may point that for me the only person in charge for my carrer is me, whatever is my position.

"it may be that he was sexually attracted to her and she may not have shown enough rejection signs"

The problem is that the onus should not be on her to show rejection signs.

'I'm sorry for mugging you, I thought you were just giving me that $50 - you didn't show enough rejection signs'

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#224

Post by mcculley »

mcculley wrote: post #45
AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

I suspect that while Silicon Valley has slightly more instances of this behavior than other industries (due to lots of startups running without adult supervision), the perception is amplified by the victims being more likely to have blogs or other ways to speak up about it.

I'm intrigued by the downvote. I've seen lots of misogynism in less technical industries and much less in some large mature technology organizations. Does the downvoter disagree that the behavior in Silicon Valley gets more attention? I haven't been in Silicon Valley myself in over ten years, so I don't know what it's like there. I just see lots of bad behavior in other regions and industries that's not blogged about.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#225

Post by enraged_camel »

mbrutsch wrote: post #217
enraged_camel wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also according to the dictionary, which defines the word "victim" as: "One who is harmed by or made to suffer under a circumstance or condition: e.g. victims of war; victims of an epidemic; victims of poverty." Unless you believe she enjoyed the attentions of men, that is. In which case you would be correct.

1. I don't believe she "suffered", any more than the folks in this thread have "suffered". Words did not become such harmful weapons until recently. 2. I find it somewhere between amusing and horrifying that you compare war, epidemic and poverty to someone grabbing your ass at work. They are different by at least one order of magnitude.

1. The point is that she must have felt very uncomfortable, despite hiding her discomfort behind a tough attitude. The fact that she was able to cope with the way she was treated doesn't mean she didn't suffer and was not a victim of sexual harassment.

2. They are the examples provided by the dictionary to get the point across. Notice how they are inside the quotation marks.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#226

Post by sheraz »

gotchange wrote: post #221
sheraz wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...I think we have butted heads in other threads... ;-) I get emojis from our legal and marketing teams all the time. It is a part of office culture in many / most places I would imagine. Here is my off-color joke: Q. How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb? A. One. AND THATS NOT FUNNY! Yes, I can complement anyone I like. I don't need to have a pre-existing relationship to do so. Here is the problem…

> Yes, I can complement anyone I like. I don't need to have a pre-existing relationship to do so. What if the other person doesn't want to hear your opinion or complements regarding a personal quality of his/her, would you stop and keep it to yourself or just keep embarrassing yourself till someone puts you in your right place?

Well, if it is about me then I can take a hint. I don't need to step on the same landmine twice.

Others might need an assist.

The point being is that I don't need permission to tell someone something that I think is innocuous, such as a complement.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#227

Post by fsloth »

mbrutsch wrote: post #218
fsloth wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No accident. The "victim" shares the responsibility of standing up for themselves. This culture of victimhood has helped no one but Tumblr." A sexual harassment is analogous to a situation where a person hits another person, the other person fails to duck/block and gets hit in the face. I really can't see how the victim could be responsible for getting hurt. The fact that some people have practiced the art of boxing…

"You have a nice ass" == "a punch in the face"

Psychological pain is as bad as physical.

I was 'merely asked for a beer' once by a big hairy guy who had stalked me in a public swimming area. And I'm a straight male. I can tell you, sexual harassment is kinda like porn - you know what it is when you feel it.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#228

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #123
bunkydoo wrote: post #94

This is why corporations won't exist in their current form by the end of the century. I firmly believe that working solo prevents every problem the workplace could possibly present. As a LGBT male I feel that even though all these companies try to prance around with rainbow flags and make racial and gender based hiring quotas - it just furthers segregation. By abandoning the fuckers in HR and fighting for your own pl…

Well, that only works because you're physically strong. Try the same strategy as a slightly built woman and see how it works out.

[deleted]

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#229

Post by mbrutsch »

enraged_camel wrote: post #225
mbrutsch wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I don't believe she "suffered", any more than the folks in this thread have "suffered". Words did not become such harmful weapons until recently. 2. I find it somewhere between amusing and horrifying that you compare war, epidemic and poverty to someone grabbing your ass at work. They are different by at least one order of magnitude.

1. The point is that she must have felt very uncomfortable, despite hiding her discomfort behind a tough attitude. The fact that she was able to cope with the way she was treated doesn't mean she didn't suffer and was not a victim of sexual harassment. 2. They are the examples provided by the dictionary to get the point across. Notice how they are inside the quotation marks.

> she must have

This is called "projecting".

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#230

Post by bitL »

As somebody that has endured the same the other way round - being hit on by many (even married) female colleagues, HR girls, having a female manager attempting to invite me to her room in the hotel, girls repeatedly stalking me at my apartment, e.g. after I performed on a piano at a party, even just meeting random girls that would dump their boyfriends on the spot, completely shaking with excitement (me and her BF just look at each other with disbelief: "Is this really happening?"), dozens of girls telling me I am their "Mr.Perfect" etc. I can relate to her plight. However, she at least has some recourse; if I wrote a blog about my experiences I'd become a laughing stock of the Internet. Sometimes I think redpillers/AFBB got something right, which is shaking me to the core... There are some very dark areas of both male and female sexuality...
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