What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google • Hacker News Board

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#121

Post by plasticxme » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:41 PM UTC

y04nn wrote: post #84

zzleeper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

I feel like she is lacking self confidence, personality. Is she living in a fantasy world where everybody is kind? I was not here, so I don't want to juge, but she has only been asked to sit on ones lap, she could have strongly refuse and asked why she would do that in the first place. She should have shown strong signs of rejection, express the fact that is make her uncomfortable and asked him to stop. If he does no…

What!? First, it is highly inappropriate for anyone in any leadership or management position to ask anyone to sit on there lap, no matter what their relationship status.

Secondly, making any kind of sexual proposition or advance in the office on someone you are not in a relationship with is sexual harassment.

If you are in a relationship, it's inappropriate and a conflict of interest.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#122

Post by skj » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:42 PM UTC

y04nn wrote: post #84

zzleeper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

I feel like she is lacking self confidence, personality. Is she living in a fantasy world where everybody is kind? I was not here, so I don't want to juge, but she has only been asked to sit on ones lap, she could have strongly refuse and asked why she would do that in the first place. She should have shown strong signs of rejection, express the fact that is make her uncomfortable and asked him to stop. If he does no…

Victim blaming.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#123

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:43 PM UTC

bunkydoo wrote: post #94

This is why corporations won't exist in their current form by the end of the century. I firmly believe that working solo prevents every problem the workplace could possibly present. As a LGBT male I feel that even though all these companies try to prance around with rainbow flags and make racial and gender based hiring quotas - it just furthers segregation. By abandoning the fuckers in HR and fighting for your own pl…

Well, that only works because you're physically strong. Try the same strategy as a slightly built woman and see how it works out.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#124

Post by bigethan » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:43 PM UTC

sheraz wrote: post #105

Office environments today are like minefields. A man never knows when his next step, word, or simple action will be misconstrued as harassment. Hold a door? Thats harassment. Wink ;-) in an email or IM? Thats harassment. Tell an off-color joke? Thats harassment. Complement female coworkers outfit? Thats harassment. Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen? Thats harassment. Getting caught looking looki…

s/A man/Oblivious Sheraz/

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#125

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

eklavya wrote: post #29

Why does nobody seem to be bothered with the apologize and continue as usual outcome? Shouldn't there have been serious implications for the sexual offender?

Absolutely, though I don't think the term 'sexual offender' is appropriate, that is iirc reserved for people that have been convicted of a sexual offense.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#126

Post by the_af » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

Joe8Bit wrote: post #67

mtrimpe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; never trust HR to do the right thing. HR will choose the approach they believe minimizes risk to the company. If they believe kicking you out instead of your harasser is less risky they won't hesitate twice to do so. I can confirm that from personal experience. If you can afford it get legal advice first ... and then go to HR.

As a note: the above comments advice is probably specific to the US. In the UK, for instance, terminating someone for reporting sexual harassment is a very good way of losing a lot of money at a subsequent Employee Tribunal and getting your company fined. There's a lot of great precedent for siding with the reporter, even if other flimsy reasons are given for their termination. However, the point made is a correct on…

The above advice (grandparent post) is also accurate for countries in Latin America. I vouch for that. HR doesn't have the employee's best interests at heart. It's not that they will actively seek to harm you, of course; it's just that they strive to protect the company at all costs, even if that means undermining you. All other things being equal they will help you, but things are seldom "equal", especially in cases of unjust treatment by a manager, abuse, etc.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#127

Post by ethbro » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #99

DasIch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't trust HR to do the right thing or they don't, it's time to leave.

If you've privileged to have adequate savings and good prospects, sure. For a lower-middle-class graduate on their first job it isn't always that simple.

It's a good point. From a purely procedural standpoint, "Discuss with colleague, contact HR immediately if it persists (or immediately if serious enough), then hire lawyer" is impeccable advice.

On the other hand, from an outcomes standpoint, this gets a lot more murky. "I see you recently graduated and worked for Google for a month?" "Yes, I had to leave under difficult circumstances" isn't a great conversation to be having career-wise, right out of college, interviewing for a replacement job. So I empathize with the blogger's confusion as to the right course.

Same problem as whistle-blowing.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#128

Post by hluska » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:45 PM UTC

y04nn wrote: post #84

zzleeper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

I feel like she is lacking self confidence, personality. Is she living in a fantasy world where everybody is kind? I was not here, so I don't want to juge, but she has only been asked to sit on ones lap, she could have strongly refuse and asked why she would do that in the first place. She should have shown strong signs of rejection, express the fact that is make her uncomfortable and asked him to stop. If he does no…

You feel like she is lacking self confidence??? That is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Her manager (aka 'someone with a disproportionate amount of control over her career') asked her to sit on his lap, talked about how 'everyone' has an Asian fetish at some point, and asked her out for dinner alone. She tolerated it up to a point and then went to HR. How in any possible sense of the term can that indicate a lack of self confidence?? And why the hell are you blaming her and not the asshole who put her in that situation???

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#129

Post by pc86 » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:45 PM UTC

sheraz wrote: post #105

Office environments today are like minefields. A man never knows when his next step, word, or simple action will be misconstrued as harassment. Hold a door? Thats harassment. Wink ;-) in an email or IM? Thats harassment. Tell an off-color joke? Thats harassment. Complement female coworkers outfit? Thats harassment. Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen? Thats harassment. Getting caught looking looki…

> Hold a door?

I don't think holding a door has ever been seriously considered harassment. Yes, some people do get upset by it.

> Wink ;-) in an email or IM?

If you need emoticons in professional correspondence you should probably rethink what you're trying to say. I also don't think an emoticon has ever been considered harassment.

> Tell an off-color joke?

A. What's your definition of off-color?

B. Unless you're a comedian, you probably shouldn't be telling racist/sexist/offensive jokes at work anyway.

> Complement female coworkers outfit?

Unless you're working in fashion I don't think you have any reason to do this, especially if it's not someone you wouldn't consider a friend. Here's a good rule: If you don't have a "chat on the weekends" type of relationship with someone, you probably shouldn't be commenting on their personal appearance at work.

> Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen?

I think everyone can imagine that this has been done intentionally to make someone uncomfortable, especially in an elevator or in line.

> Getting caught looking at a female coworkers boobs?

Of course it's harassment, Jesus.

> Why can't anyone have a sense of humor about any of this?

I know, right?! I mean, I was just standing half an inch away from you in an empty elevator, commenting on how you were dressed and staring at your chest. Have a sense of humor about it!

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#130

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:45 PM UTC

plasticxme wrote: post #121

y04nn wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like she is lacking self confidence, personality. Is she living in a fantasy world where everybody is kind? I was not here, so I don't want to juge, but she has only been asked to sit on ones lap, she could have strongly refuse and asked why she would do that in the first place. She should have shown strong signs of rejection, express the fact that is make her uncomfortable and asked him to stop. If he does no…

What!? First, it is highly inappropriate for anyone in any leadership or management position to ask anyone to sit on there lap, no matter what their relationship status. Secondly, making any kind of sexual proposition or advance in the office on someone you are not in a relationship with is sexual harassment. If you are in a relationship, it's inappropriate and a conflict of interest.

I wouldn't limit that to just people in any leadership or management position, that's just a aggravating circumstance.