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What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

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Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#81

Post by nikcub »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #63
nikcub wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The universal rate of sexual harassment of females is 31%[1] in Silicon Valley it is 60%[2]. The restaurant industry is notorious for sexual harassment and their rate of harassment from superiors is 66%[3] - about par with Silicon Valley. So, yes, it is a problem in Silicon Valley - and ignorance of the severity of the problem is a large part of the problem (you'll find a lot of research on sexual harassment in other…

The 60% number refers to "unwanted sexual advances", not sexual harassment. Only 30% received unwanted sexual advances more than once, so that seems like a solid upper bound on actual sexual harassment. If you consider even a single unwanted sexual advance to be harassment then you get silly conclusions which I expect you don't endorse. For example, I've been "harassed" repeatedly by fatties and gay guys in the past…

The U.N, amongst almost everyone else, defines an unwanted sexual advance as sexual harassment:

http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#82

Post by Joeboy »

cmdkeen wrote: post #75
Joeboy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second statistic says it's about "unwanted sexual advances", not "sexual harassment". Not being interested isn't the same as being sexually harassed. Edit: The way the page is written makes it hard to understand what most of it actually means, but if I interpret it correctly 50% of 65% of 60% received sexual advances from a superior more than once. So about 20% had experience of a boss failing to take a hint.

Unwanted sexual advances "from a superior" is the bit that makes it harassment. You can ask out a co-worker but you don't ask out people where there is a power imbalance in the relationship, it's not rocket science.

Is Bill Gates' relationship with Melinda Gates sexual harassment?

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#83

Post by edraferi »

panic wrote: post #56
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to write this comment pretty carefully to avoid vindicating the offender or blaming the victim. It seems to me like the victim wasn't making it clear that she was uncomfortable (this is not her fault), and perhaps the offender was picking up on signals that weren't there. The situation needed to be fixed, but the behaviour mentioned in the article could have been more flirtatious than forced. A zero tolerance…

It doesn't matter if it was "more flirtatious than forced". A manager should not flirt with their reports. Managers are supposed to be responsible for the growth of their employees; making an employee so uncomfortable with you that they run away from you on sight is a spectacular failure to do your job.

Correct.

It's harder to enforce judgements on this kind of thing though, because ambiguity exists about the intention. It's much easier to punish clear "do me a favor for the promotion/bonus" situations.

I agree a blanket "no romance with direct reports" rule is best.

I'm just astonished she didn't get an immediate transfer to another group. I would be livid if this was happening and HR didn't remove the power dynamic immediately.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#84

Post by y04nn »

zzleeper wrote: post #41
jneal wrote: post #11

I'm not going to speak directly regarding the way this individual handled this situation, but in general, if you experience any form of sexual harassment I highly recommend you speak with HR immediately following the incident. Don't allow it to escalate, things can only get worse. Even if it's your first day on the job, you should never feel speaking to HR regarding an incident is a bad idea.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

I feel like she is lacking self confidence, personality. Is she living in a fantasy world where everybody is kind? I was not here, so I don't want to juge, but she has only been asked to sit on ones lap, she could have strongly refuse and asked why she would do that in the first place. She should have shown strong signs of rejection, express the fact that is make her uncomfortable and asked him to stop. If he does not stop, them it is appropriate to report the behavior. But I don't call this has "sexual harassment", but more has sexual interest.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#85

Post by yulaow »

wavefunction wrote: post #71
zzleeper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

Well this was in the US, where people do not kiss colleagues on the cheek. I know your intentions are fair in mentioning this cultural practice but that sort of justification also presents a fair amount of minimization of obvious harassment. I mean, do you kiss everyone on the cheek in Spanish-speaking countries or just very close friends?

Also in Italy, everyone. It is just the standard way to present yourself and/or say goodbye. I would also say I am more prone to do it with those people I don't know at all or very well than with my close friends.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#86

Post by skj »

marincounty wrote: post #65
qb45 wrote: post #4

> In the span of a week, I went from feeling excited and motivated about my job to feeling lethargic, anxious, and unenthused. (...) I was kissed on the cheek, asked to sit on my manager’s lap, told about my manager’s sex life and virility (...) There exists a breed of narcissists who are so incapable of tolerating rejection that they will consistently ignore every sign of it. In fact, the less you are satisfied with…

I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their sexual life. (In all honestly, women have told me too more personal things (sexual in nature) at work, over men. The big difference is these women had no power over my career. And the difference is they weren't "hitting" on me. When I was a younger man--yes so…

Nice typo about Shirley's elder son wanking in on her... I hope?

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#87

Post by wavefunction »

bontoJR wrote: post #31

This problem happens in every industry, tourism and hospitality is full of these cases as far as I heard even by people I personally know. The Silicon Valley situation is more visible for the simple reason that diversity is still a problem, so having so few girls makes this a huge problem and a barrier hard to overcome for women. I feel truly sorry for all the female colleagues having troubles with bosses and colleag…

>girls

You should start by referring to female workers in SV as women.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#88

Post by nikcub »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #47
eklavya wrote: post #29

Why does nobody seem to be bothered with the apologize and continue as usual outcome? Shouldn't there have been serious implications for the sexual offender?

I have to write this comment pretty carefully to avoid vindicating the offender or blaming the victim. It seems to me like the victim wasn't making it clear that she was uncomfortable (this is not her fault), and perhaps the offender was picking up on signals that weren't there. The situation needed to be fixed, but the behaviour mentioned in the article could have been more flirtatious than forced. A zero tolerance…

> It seems to me like the victim wasn't making it clear that she was uncomfortable

The default position should be to assume that everybody is uncomfortable with everything unless otherwise stated.

It's like a good firewall policy - default block all and then explicitly allow.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#89

Post by isnullorempty »

throwaway999888 wrote: post #76
isnullorempty wrote: post #66

What happened to the woman in the article was unacceptable _if_ she clearly signaled she wasn't interested. On the other hand some women now think "Why won't that cute guy come hit on me?, is he shy or gay?" No he is worried you will report him for harassment. Forget ever trying to date someone from work it's a minefield (as is dating in general!).

It's unacceptable because of the manager-subordinate relation. And you can't put the burden on women to actively signal that they are not sexually interested in a professional setting. That's at best a large distraction for them, and at worst very draining and emotionally damaging.

I meant if someone show interest not all the time, men can be dumb and are unable to detect subtle hints.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#90

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway19245 wrote: post #74

I'd like to preface this comment by saying I'm not confident in my opinion, and I'm very open to discussion and to changing my stance. My understanding is that the manager's actions would likely be considered low level harassment, tipping towards misconduct considering the short duration (1 week) and minimal resolution attempts outside of HR. Definitions are hard for this subject, but my understanding is the phrase e…

[deleted]
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