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What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

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Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#71

Post by wavefunction »

zzleeper wrote: post #41
jneal wrote: post #11

I'm not going to speak directly regarding the way this individual handled this situation, but in general, if you experience any form of sexual harassment I highly recommend you speak with HR immediately following the incident. Don't allow it to escalate, things can only get worse. Even if it's your first day on the job, you should never feel speaking to HR regarding an incident is a bad idea.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

Well this was in the US, where people do not kiss colleagues on the cheek. I know your intentions are fair in mentioning this cultural practice but that sort of justification also presents a fair amount of minimization of obvious harassment. I mean, do you kiss everyone on the cheek in Spanish-speaking countries or just very close friends?

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#72

Post by noir_lord »

rplnt wrote: post #15
AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

I'm starting to think that I am (or we, men, are) blind to this. If it happens as much as is reported (I don not work in SV, but I'd guess Eastern-ish Europe would be worse), then it must happen before out eyes, or even worse, we are the ones doing it. I honestly can't think of such incident, but this suggest that there were many that I simply ignored, didn't see them as such. edit: To make it clear, I definitely did…

It does happen and I've seen it, I had to take my own manager to one side when I was team leader and explain to him his behaviour was unacceptable and he'd likely end up with an HR complaint.

In that case it was jokes that I don't think had any malice but would definitely look bad in front of HR.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#73

Post by kentrado »

wavefunction wrote: post #71
zzleeper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

Well this was in the US, where people do not kiss colleagues on the cheek. I know your intentions are fair in mentioning this cultural practice but that sort of justification also presents a fair amount of minimization of obvious harassment. I mean, do you kiss everyone on the cheek in Spanish-speaking countries or just very close friends?

EVERYONE. In Spain they do it twice. Cause they are gangsters.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#74

Post by throwaway19245 »

I'd like to preface this comment by saying I'm not confident in my opinion, and I'm very open to discussion and to changing my stance.

My understanding is that the manager's actions would likely be considered low level harassment, tipping towards misconduct considering the short duration (1 week) and minimal resolution attempts outside of HR. Definitions are hard for this subject, but my understanding is the phrase escalates with severity from misconduct->harassment->assault.

I agree that the manager was in the wrong, but I worry about a culture that cannot readily distinguish the severity of conduct, and in-turn come up with an appropriate response.

In this scenario, I feel going to HR was appropriate, but I also feel this writing takes an overly hostile tone, instead of one focused on improvement. I'd find this tone appropriate if there were more pushback from HR, or if harassment continued and HR wouldn't help resolve. But as far as I can tell, OP is happy with HRs response.

Perhaps instead we can explore what HR can and should do to prevent self-confidence issues at the conclusion of these investigations? To me, that would be more beneficial than asking others to pursue a path which - all things being similar - results in self-doubt.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#75

Post by cmdkeen »

Joeboy wrote: post #46
nikcub wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The universal rate of sexual harassment of females is 31%[1] in Silicon Valley it is 60%[2]. The restaurant industry is notorious for sexual harassment and their rate of harassment from superiors is 66%[3] - about par with Silicon Valley. So, yes, it is a problem in Silicon Valley - and ignorance of the severity of the problem is a large part of the problem (you'll find a lot of research on sexual harassment in other…

The second statistic says it's about "unwanted sexual advances", not "sexual harassment". Not being interested isn't the same as being sexually harassed. Edit: The way the page is written makes it hard to understand what most of it actually means, but if I interpret it correctly 50% of 65% of 60% received sexual advances from a superior more than once. So about 20% had experience of a boss failing to take a hint.

Unwanted sexual advances "from a superior" is the bit that makes it harassment. You can ask out a co-worker but you don't ask out people where there is a power imbalance in the relationship, it's not rocket science.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#76

Post by throwaway999888 »

isnullorempty wrote: post #66

What happened to the woman in the article was unacceptable _if_ she clearly signaled she wasn't interested. On the other hand some women now think "Why won't that cute guy come hit on me?, is he shy or gay?" No he is worried you will report him for harassment. Forget ever trying to date someone from work it's a minefield (as is dating in general!).

It's unacceptable because of the manager-subordinate relation.

And you can't put the burden on women to actively signal that they are not sexually interested in a professional setting. That's at best a large distraction for them, and at worst very draining and emotionally damaging.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#78

Post by maxlybbert »

Aeolos wrote: post #21
jneal wrote: post #11

I'm not going to speak directly regarding the way this individual handled this situation, but in general, if you experience any form of sexual harassment I highly recommend you speak with HR immediately following the incident. Don't allow it to escalate, things can only get worse. Even if it's your first day on the job, you should never feel speaking to HR regarding an incident is a bad idea.

Can you really trust HR to do the right thing?

HR exists to protect the company. Imagine if you were about to sign a contract and asked to have your lawyer review it; it's obvious that if the company were to say "don't worry, we had our lawyers review it," you would still want your own lawyer.

However, the laws are written to protect employees from abuse, and if they're decent laws, the company should have a strong incentive to do the right thing, and then never give a bad reference when another company asks if they should hire the offender.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#79

Post by yclept »

Joe8Bit wrote: post #67
mtrimpe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; never trust HR to do the right thing. HR will choose the approach they believe minimizes risk to the company. If they believe kicking you out instead of your harasser is less risky they won't hesitate twice to do so. I can confirm that from personal experience. If you can afford it get legal advice first ... and then go to HR.

As a note: the above comments advice is probably specific to the US. In the UK, for instance, terminating someone for reporting sexual harassment is a very good way of losing a lot of money at a subsequent Employee Tribunal and getting your company fined. There's a lot of great precedent for siding with the reporter, even if other flimsy reasons are given for their termination. However, the point made is a correct on…

This is the same case in the US but you can still be out of a job which is a serious problem for many.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#80

Post by EliRivers »

mbrutsch wrote: post #64
Ntrails wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See - this is interesting. There is definitely a sense that in "ye olden days" people were stauncher. There's a bit of application of so called common sense where a lot of behaviours can be shut down by addressing them. Yet you instantly have to recognise that you just blamed the victim for not being more assertive, and not being able to protect themself from something that they should never have to deal with - it's…

> Yet you instantly have to recognise that you just blamed the victim for not being more assertive You and every other commenter seems to think I don't understand that. Not sure why.

It's because people give the benefit of the doubt and don't want to think you're the kind of guy who blames the weak and powerless when bullies abuse them.
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