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What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

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Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#61

Post by mbrutsch »

EliRivers wrote: post #48
mbrutsch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother worked in an all-male field starting in the 1970s; they didn't even have a women's bathroom at the plant when she started. When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. I don't see where she says she ever even hinted to the manager that his actions were inappropriate. I suspect a single "cut that shit ou…

When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. Good for her. What happened next was that the offender moved on to someone else, and when they found someone who wasn't so confident as your mother, sexually assaulted her. It's nice that you wonder why people don't stand up for themselves, but you should be careful th…

> What happened next was that the offender moved on to someone else, and when they found someone who wasn't so confident as your mother, sexually assaulted her.

Uh, no, but I can see how your expectations have been molded to believe this is the only possible "thing that happened next".

> but you should be careful that people don't accidentally think that you're ascribing blame to the victim.

No accident. The "victim" shares the responsibility of standing up for themselves. This culture of victimhood has helped no one but Tumblr.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#62

Post by sheraz »

mbrutsch wrote: post #39
AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

My mother worked in an all-male field starting in the 1970s; they didn't even have a women's bathroom at the plant when she started. When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. I don't see where she says she ever even hinted to the manager that his actions were inappropriate. I suspect a single "cut that shit ou…

This. This so much!

My mother worked in the oil industry in the 70s and 80s, and these are the exact things she would say. (talk about male-dominated industry!)

Heading off to HR only sweeps the conflict under a bureaucratic rug and never really deals with the problem effectively.

Todays office culture is so toxic, and I fear it will get worse as "trigger warning" and "safe places" graduate from college campuses to the workplace.

Rather, just be a stronger person and call out the bastard to is acting the fool.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#63

Post by yummyfajitas »

nikcub wrote: post #23
AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

The universal rate of sexual harassment of females is 31%[1] in Silicon Valley it is 60%[2]. The restaurant industry is notorious for sexual harassment and their rate of harassment from superiors is 66%[3] - about par with Silicon Valley. So, yes, it is a problem in Silicon Valley - and ignorance of the severity of the problem is a large part of the problem (you'll find a lot of research on sexual harassment in other…

The 60% number refers to "unwanted sexual advances", not sexual harassment. Only 30% received unwanted sexual advances more than once, so that seems like a solid upper bound on actual sexual harassment.

If you consider even a single unwanted sexual advance to be harassment then you get silly conclusions which I expect you don't endorse. For example, I've been "harassed" repeatedly by fatties and gay guys in the past few weeks - they approach me and go away when I display disinterest. Pune and Bombay are so unsafe for men!

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#64

Post by mbrutsch »

Ntrails wrote: post #59
mbrutsch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother worked in an all-male field starting in the 1970s; they didn't even have a women's bathroom at the plant when she started. When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. I don't see where she says she ever even hinted to the manager that his actions were inappropriate. I suspect a single "cut that shit ou…

See - this is interesting. There is definitely a sense that in "ye olden days" people were stauncher. There's a bit of application of so called common sense where a lot of behaviours can be shut down by addressing them. Yet you instantly have to recognise that you just blamed the victim for not being more assertive, and not being able to protect themself from something that they should never have to deal with - it's…

> Yet you instantly have to recognise that you just blamed the victim for not being more assertive

You and every other commenter seems to think I don't understand that. Not sure why.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#65

Post by marincounty »

qb45 wrote: post #4

> In the span of a week, I went from feeling excited and motivated about my job to feeling lethargic, anxious, and unenthused. (...) I was kissed on the cheek, asked to sit on my manager’s lap, told about my manager’s sex life and virility (...) There exists a breed of narcissists who are so incapable of tolerating rejection that they will consistently ignore every sign of it. In fact, the less you are satisfied with…

I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their sexual life. (In all honestly, women have told me too more personal things (sexual in nature) at work, over men. The big difference is these women had no power over my career.

And the difference is they weren't "hitting" on me. When I was a younger man--yes some where, but I handled the situation. (I guarantee now they are just yacking about sex, and their personal stuff.)The last thing I wanted to hear on a Monday was a story about Shirly's elder son walking in on her and her new boy friend "rattling the bed". I still can't get that image out of my head, and it's been 20 years.

Actually, I have found both sexes guilty of talking about their sex life at work. It could be intimate details of the date you had on Friday night, or how your mate isn't attentive to your needs any more. I've never liked hearing personal stuff about my coworkers. Of course, I never said anything, because it was innocent conversation at the time, but if I was an attractive female, or a young attractive male, I might have thought differently.

Maybe we shouldn't talk about this stuff at work. Personally, I just don't like hearing anything that personal ever. That's what therapists get paid to suffer through?

I not conflating my experiences with her's; just stating we shouldn't talk about anything remotely sexual--hell--shut up about baby on the way. We see the cute baby bump, or suffer through how hard it was to fertilize the egg. (Guys like me look at it as a tragedy, not something great.) People talk way too much at work. In my experience, most are lonely and don't have close friends, and use workers as free friends, and free therapy. We don't want to hear it. The jokes are worn out. It's just done. Find friends outside of work to dazzle with your stories. I know finding friends is very hard. It's even harder, if all you have concentrated on is work since that first job out of college.

And yes, some are sexual predators. I've seen them in most work places. Ive seen gay managers give special jobs to their boy Friday. I've seen pretty girls promoted--just becase they are pretty. I used to see blatatent sexual harassment, but not in the last fifteen years, but it looks like it hasn't gone away, at least at Google.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#66

Post by isnullorempty »

What happened to the woman in the article was unacceptable _if_ she clearly signaled she wasn't interested. On the other hand some women now think "Why won't that cute guy come hit on me?, is he shy or gay?" No he is worried you will report him for harassment. Forget ever trying to date someone from work it's a minefield (as is dating in general!).

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#67

Post by Joe8Bit »

mtrimpe wrote: post #32
Aeolos wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really trust HR to do the right thing?

Indeed; never trust HR to do the right thing. HR will choose the approach they believe minimizes risk to the company. If they believe kicking you out instead of your harasser is less risky they won't hesitate twice to do so. I can confirm that from personal experience. If you can afford it get legal advice first ... and then go to HR.

As a note: the above comments advice is probably specific to the US.

In the UK, for instance, terminating someone for reporting sexual harassment is a very good way of losing a lot of money at a subsequent Employee Tribunal and getting your company fined. There's a lot of great precedent for siding with the reporter, even if other flimsy reasons are given for their termination.

However, the point made is a correct one. An HR person has a duty not to you but to the company, so never assume they have your best interests at heart.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#68

Post by EliRivers »

mbrutsch wrote: post #61
EliRivers wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. Good for her. What happened next was that the offender moved on to someone else, and when they found someone who wasn't so confident as your mother, sexually assaulted her. It's nice that you wonder why people don't stand up for themselves, but you should be careful th…

> What happened next was that the offender moved on to someone else, and when they found someone who wasn't so confident as your mother, sexually assaulted her. Uh, no, but I can see how your expectations have been molded to believe this is the only possible "thing that happened next". > but you should be careful that people don't accidentally think that you're ascribing blame to the victim. No accident. The "victim"…

Uh, no, but I can see how your expectations have been molded to believe this is the only possible "thing that happened next".

Do you think your mother was so special that a man who attempted to sexually assault her tried it that one time only, on her only? While it's not impossible, the balance of probability very much suggests that a man willing to try this on your mother is willing to try this on other women as well.

As an aside, this is a text interface. There is no need to represent in text exactly what comes out of your mouth. You need not begin your sentences with "Uh".

Why do you place the word "victim" in quotes? Do you suggest that they are not victims?

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#69

Post by exo762 »

leaveyou wrote: post #25

What an uplifting story. Sexual harassment is a serious problem affecting women all over the world. I'm glad that more and more people speak up.

If you think that women are somehow immune to this behaviour you are very naive. Stereotype of older women superior hitting on young men has not appeared from thin air.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#70

Post by mbrutsch »

sheraz wrote: post #62
mbrutsch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother worked in an all-male field starting in the 1970s; they didn't even have a women's bathroom at the plant when she started. When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. I don't see where she says she ever even hinted to the manager that his actions were inappropriate. I suspect a single "cut that shit ou…

This. This so much! My mother worked in the oil industry in the 70s and 80s, and these are the exact things she would say. (talk about male-dominated industry!) Heading off to HR only sweeps the conflict under a bureaucratic rug and never really deals with the problem effectively. Todays office culture is so toxic, and I fear it will get worse as "trigger warning" and "safe places" graduate from college campuses to t…

Yep. My mom was the first woman in her industry to be certified as a plant operator; the first woman to be on the board that certifies operators, and the first woman to chair the board of certification. When asked if she'd like to be called "chairwoman", her response was "hell, no, I worked too hard to be the damn chairman!"
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