What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google • Hacker News Board

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#41

Post by zzleeper » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:03 PM UTC

jneal wrote: post #11

I'm not going to speak directly regarding the way this individual handled this situation, but in general, if you experience any form of sexual harassment I highly recommend you speak with HR immediately following the incident. Don't allow it to escalate, things can only get worse. Even if it's your first day on the job, you should never feel speaking to HR regarding an incident is a bad idea.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers).

Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#42

Post by mollmerx » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:04 PM UTC

eklavya wrote: post #29

Why does nobody seem to be bothered with the apologize and continue as usual outcome? Shouldn't there have been serious implications for the sexual offender?

This. I find it surprising that the offender wasn't terminated and incomprehensible that the victim was required to continue reporting to him.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#43

Post by acdha » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:04 PM UTC

rplnt wrote: post #15

AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

I'm starting to think that I am (or we, men, are) blind to this. If it happens as much as is reported (I don not work in SV, but I'd guess Eastern-ish Europe would be worse), then it must happen before out eyes, or even worse, we are the ones doing it. I honestly can't think of such incident, but this suggest that there were many that I simply ignored, didn't see them as such. edit: To make it clear, I definitely did…

The main thing to remember is that much of it is done by men who are smart enough not to be easily caught. The rest of us don't see things happening because they're careful not to have witnesses, or try to have some plausible excuse.

That leads to the other side of how toxic this is: if you're harassed, how do you know who's safe to tell? It's probably safer not to tell other men if you don't want to risk finding out that they're part of the problem or just unsympathetic without unrealistic levels of proof.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#44

Post by room271 » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:05 PM UTC

eklavya wrote: post #29

Why does nobody seem to be bothered with the apologize and continue as usual outcome? Shouldn't there have been serious implications for the sexual offender?

Yes, for the things she describes her manager should have been fired, not kept on after some kind of apology.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#45

Post by mcculley » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:05 PM UTC

AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

I suspect that while Silicon Valley has slightly more instances of this behavior than other industries (due to lots of startups running without adult supervision), the perception is amplified by the victims being more likely to have blogs or other ways to speak up about it.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#46

Post by Joeboy » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:05 PM UTC

nikcub wrote: post #23

AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

The universal rate of sexual harassment of females is 31%[1] in Silicon Valley it is 60%[2]. The restaurant industry is notorious for sexual harassment and their rate of harassment from superiors is 66%[3] - about par with Silicon Valley. So, yes, it is a problem in Silicon Valley - and ignorance of the severity of the problem is a large part of the problem (you'll find a lot of research on sexual harassment in other…

The second statistic says it's about "unwanted sexual advances", not "sexual harassment". Not being interested isn't the same as being sexually harassed.

Edit: The way the page is written makes it hard to understand what most of it actually means, but if I interpret it correctly 50% of 65% of 60% received sexual advances from a superior more than once. So about 20% had experience of a boss failing to take a hint.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#47

Post by Sir_Cmpwn » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:06 PM UTC

eklavya wrote: post #29

Why does nobody seem to be bothered with the apologize and continue as usual outcome? Shouldn't there have been serious implications for the sexual offender?

I have to write this comment pretty carefully to avoid vindicating the offender or blaming the victim. It seems to me like the victim wasn't making it clear that she was uncomfortable (this is not her fault), and perhaps the offender was picking up on signals that weren't there. The situation needed to be fixed, but the behaviour mentioned in the article could have been more flirtatious than forced. A zero tolerance policy is just a way of removing the humanity from the situation. Maybe the events weren't so severe to demand that he lose his job, has charges pressed, etc. I don't think we should be calling for his head. I am surprised that she continued to work under his management, though.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#48

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:08 PM UTC

mbrutsch wrote: post #39

AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

My mother worked in an all-male field starting in the 1970s; they didn't even have a women's bathroom at the plant when she started. When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. I don't see where she says she ever even hinted to the manager that his actions were inappropriate. I suspect a single "cut that shit ou…

When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated.

Good for her. What happened next was that the offender moved on to someone else, and when they found someone who wasn't so confident as your mother, sexually assaulted her.

It's nice that you wonder why people don't stand up for themselves, but you should be careful that people don't accidentally think that you're ascribing blame to the victim. It is interesting that you imply that in previous generations, there were no victims. This does not tally with the evidence I have that indicates that sexual assault and other such crimes have been with us for a long time.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#49

Post by ruraljuror » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:08 PM UTC

mtrimpe wrote: post #32

Aeolos wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really trust HR to do the right thing?

Indeed; never trust HR to do the right thing. HR will choose the approach they believe minimizes risk to the company. If they believe kicking you out instead of your harasser is less risky they won't hesitate twice to do so. I can confirm that from personal experience. If you can afford it get legal advice first ... and then go to HR.

I would disagree with this advice. Unless you have a good reason not to trust your particular hr department for this situation, you should put in a good faith effort. Perhaps you could argue that most hr departments are incompetent, but I cannot imagine a scenario where retaliating against an employee for reporting sexual harassment would minimize a company's risk.

Also I believe most employment discrimination employees will work on a contingency basis, so you should consider reaching out to them regardless of your financial situation.

I understand the constant refrain from HN of never trust hr, but I think reporting to hr could form a better foundation for a lawsuit. Feel free to contact an attorney first. That is what I would do.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#50

Post by sre_ops » Tue, Jan 19, 2016, 1:08 PM UTC

mbrutsch wrote: post #39

AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

My mother worked in an all-male field starting in the 1970s; they didn't even have a women's bathroom at the plant when she started. When something like this happened to her, she was perfectly capable of opening her mouth and telling the person that their behavior was unappreciated. I don't see where she says she ever even hinted to the manager that his actions were inappropriate. I suspect a single "cut that shit ou…

That's because your mother was not a special little snowflake who thought the entire world always revolved around her. I'm going to guess she did not have her parents walk her to school every day or come with her to a job interview.