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What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

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Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#101

Post by crusso »

rplnt wrote: post #15
AznHisoka wrote: post #5

Is this really a problem with Silicon Valley? I think it's an universal problem you'll find in all industries.

I'm starting to think that I am (or we, men, are) blind to this. If it happens as much as is reported (I don not work in SV, but I'd guess Eastern-ish Europe would be worse), then it must happen before out eyes, or even worse, we are the ones doing it. I honestly can't think of such incident, but this suggest that there were many that I simply ignored, didn't see them as such. edit: To make it clear, I definitely did…

but I'd guess Eastern-ish Europe would be worse

You don't have to go to Eastern-ish Europe for that. I've spent some time in offices around London over the last couple of years and I've found that it's much more likely to witness sexually-charged conversation in the IT workplace than here in the US.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#102

Post by Alex3917 »

nikcub wrote: post #81
yummyfajitas wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 60% number refers to "unwanted sexual advances", not sexual harassment. Only 30% received unwanted sexual advances more than once, so that seems like a solid upper bound on actual sexual harassment. If you consider even a single unwanted sexual advance to be harassment then you get silly conclusions which I expect you don't endorse. For example, I've been "harassed" repeatedly by fatties and gay guys in the past…

The U.N, amongst almost everyone else, defines an unwanted sexual advance as sexual harassment: http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf

No it doesn't, they use basically the same definition as the U.S. Read the link...

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#103

Post by isnullorempty »

shinigami wrote: post #96
isnullorempty wrote: post #66

What happened to the woman in the article was unacceptable _if_ she clearly signaled she wasn't interested. On the other hand some women now think "Why won't that cute guy come hit on me?, is he shy or gay?" No he is worried you will report him for harassment. Forget ever trying to date someone from work it's a minefield (as is dating in general!).

Yes, life must be so hard without being able to date people from work.

Given you spent a large chunk of your waking life at work it's a breeding ground for attractions to be formed same as school, uni etc.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#104

Post by y04nn »

wavefunction wrote: post #71
zzleeper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that often you might not be entirely sure about what's going on. In her case, the kiss in the cheek might just be cultural confusion (in Spanish-speaking countries we do that even with strangers). Of course, after the lap thing... I don't even have words... How can you treat other people like that.. you are put in a position of power/responsibility and they use it to degrade others..

Well this was in the US, where people do not kiss colleagues on the cheek. I know your intentions are fair in mentioning this cultural practice but that sort of justification also presents a fair amount of minimization of obvious harassment. I mean, do you kiss everyone on the cheek in Spanish-speaking countries or just very close friends?

I live in France, and it is natural to kiss on the cheek. Recently I was in UK and without even thinking about it I kissed a girl on the cheek to welcome her. After it happened I just realized what was going on. The thing is that it takes some time to reframe your behavior. But I have also been away several months and then it was feeling weird for me to kiss a girl on the cheek.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#105

Post by sheraz »

Office environments today are like minefields. A man never knows when his next step, word, or simple action will be misconstrued as harassment.

Hold a door? Thats harassment.

Wink ;-) in an email or IM? Thats harassment.

Tell an off-color joke? Thats harassment.

Complement female coworkers outfit? Thats harassment.

Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen? Thats harassment.

Getting caught looking looking at a female coworkers boobs? Thats harassment.

The problem is that at the end of the day it is all up to how that female employee "feels." If she is especially sensitive, then everyone around her has to walk on eggshells.

Why can't anyone have a sense of humor about any of this?

I think I'm going to watch 9 to 5 with Dolly Parton tonight, just to remember a time when people had a sense of humor about dealing with toxic office culture.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#106

Post by marincounty »

cmdkeen wrote: post #97
marincounty wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their sexual life. (In all honestly, women have told me too more personal things (sexual in nature) at work, over men. The big difference is these women had no power over my career. And the difference is they weren't "hitting" on me. When I was a younger man--yes so…

Again there's a specific issue about power imbalances. A colleague says some things you don't like it is quite easy to ask them to refrain. With a manager that may not be the case, especially if you're new to the world of work. Managing people is a responsibility and you can't act like people you have power over are just your colleagues. Perhaps in time if you build up a close working relationship with people you can…

Read my paragraph one? "The big difference is these women had no power over my career."

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#107

Post by marincounty »

skj wrote: post #86
marincounty wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their sexual life. (In all honestly, women have told me too more personal things (sexual in nature) at work, over men. The big difference is these women had no power over my career. And the difference is they weren't "hitting" on me. When I was a younger man--yes so…

Nice typo about Shirley's elder son wanking in on her... I hope?

Yea, typo.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#108

Post by mbrutsch »

enraged_camel wrote: post #77

I have a feeling that if your mother read this comment she would tell you to cut this shit out.

Perhaps. She did not live long enough to experience the "culture of victimhood" herself, so I can't say what she would have done. I do know she wasn't fond of the idea in the 70s and 80s, and regularly eschewed the notion that she was any different from any of the men with whom she worked. But the fact that she was a "quiet" feminist, that did things, rather than talking about doing things, leads me to believe you may be correct. She was not a whinger.

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#109

Post by Joeboy »

nikcub wrote: post #81
yummyfajitas wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 60% number refers to "unwanted sexual advances", not sexual harassment. Only 30% received unwanted sexual advances more than once, so that seems like a solid upper bound on actual sexual harassment. If you consider even a single unwanted sexual advance to be harassment then you get silly conclusions which I expect you don't endorse. For example, I've been "harassed" repeatedly by fatties and gay guys in the past…

The U.N, amongst almost everyone else, defines an unwanted sexual advance as sexual harassment: http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf

You actually believe that all sexual advances are sexual harassment, unless the person says yes?

Re: What I learnt from being sexually harassed at Google

#110

Post by pc86 »

bunkydoo wrote: post #94

This is why corporations won't exist in their current form by the end of the century. I firmly believe that working solo prevents every problem the workplace could possibly present. As a LGBT male I feel that even though all these companies try to prance around with rainbow flags and make racial and gender based hiring quotas - it just furthers segregation. By abandoning the fuckers in HR and fighting for your own pl…

I don't think the idea that corporations aren't going to exist by the end of the century has any basis in reality. What evidence do you have to suggest that?

And if you could explain it without needlessly hostile phrases like "fuckers in HR" or "sissy ass," that's probably for the best.

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