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Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

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Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#61

Post by peterwwillis »

est wrote: post #51
wmt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah right. Until 1999 it received wide support from Chinese officials, but then decided it was too big and started a silly propaganda campaign feeding the gullible with lies like you just told at the same time when they started a violent persecution. At least they had learned something from the bloody Tienanmen massacre, and this time instead sending military to murder piles of unarmed civilians carried out the murd…

Quick quiz for you: exactly how many people died on that square you mentioned? If not, where are the killing happened? Which side draw first blood?

You don't know?

The estimates for the civilians killed in the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 range from hundreds to thousands - no exact count is available.

In terms of "which side drew first blood", you could say the "side" of the student protesters, though there's no evidence of "blood" in their actions (as they had no weapons).

The morning of June 3, protesters clashed with unarmed soldiers trying to force them out of the square, momentarily forcing the army to retreat. By 10pm that night, the army began firing live ammunition at the protesters and the fatalities commenced.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#62

Post by sigterm »

wmt wrote: post #50
est wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Falun was banned by mainland China simply because it's a Taiwan backed cult organization to gather intel & support coup in government seniors and military. The rest is media propaganda.

Yeah right. Until 1999 it received wide support from Chinese officials, but then decided it was too big and started a silly propaganda campaign feeding the gullible with lies like you just told at the same time when they started a violent persecution. At least they had learned something from the bloody Tienanmen massacre, and this time instead sending military to murder piles of unarmed civilians carried out the murd…

> Until 1999 it received wide support from Chinese officials

Even some famed academy of science fellow believed in "special human body functions". 90s was just a really weird time in China. Chinese government is far from perfect, but I honestly don't know anyone from China who doesn't support the banning of FLG.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#63

Post by kbart »

mc32 wrote: post #25

It's not the people who provide goods who should be prosecuted but the people who carry out the actual bad who must be held to account. On the other hand, China [or any country with baddies, perh including our own] is a sovereign government and beside some economic pressure I don't know there is much more we should be able to do. Unless Cisco violated some commercial embargo or egregiously violated export law, etc.

That's how evil things happen. This phenomena is called diffusion of responsibility[0] and lead to some of the most evil actions in human history.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#64

Post by csours »

csours wrote: post #27
fixermark wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. People still do business with IBM, and they worked with the German government on the census system that tracked victims of the holocaust during WWII. IBM's existant history didn't put Cisco off of doing business with China.

IBM kind of claims that their subsidiary was more or less nationalized during the Nazi period. [1] However squishy and self-serving that claim is, Cisco doesn't even have that defense. War and human rights were going through a discovery period from WWI through the 1970's. In the 2000's there's not really an excuse for not scrutinizing what your products will be used for around the world.

1. https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/1388.wss

(too late to edit original comment, just realized I missed the link)

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#66

Post by SixSigma »

mtgx wrote: post #45

Glad this is finally coming to light. Every time I would mention it here that Cisco has built backdoors in its routers specifically to aid the Chinese government and later other governments as well, I would get downvoted. Cisco standardized the "lawful intercept" protocol for routers at the IETF, people! What did you think that meant?! The US government (hopefully after it elects a saner president) and other supposed…

Obama is insane now ?

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#67

Post by jruroc »

est wrote: post #51
wmt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah right. Until 1999 it received wide support from Chinese officials, but then decided it was too big and started a silly propaganda campaign feeding the gullible with lies like you just told at the same time when they started a violent persecution. At least they had learned something from the bloody Tienanmen massacre, and this time instead sending military to murder piles of unarmed civilians carried out the murd…

Quick quiz for you: exactly how many people died on that square you mentioned? If not, where are the killing happened? Which side draw first blood?

Are you implying that the Tiananmen Square massacre did not happen?

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#69

Post by Qwertious »

vanattab wrote: post #42
nitrogen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one is not careful, that idea leads to backwater businesses bringing back racial segregation, etc. Rather, I think human rights should be vigorously protected and clearly defined to avoid such slippery slopes.

What? How does the parents comment, which suggested that corporations should consider moral implementations along side the economic ones when making decisions, lead to racial segregation?

It depends on whose morality system you use - some people are racist, and if they hold you accountable for not adhering to their moral practices (which are incompatible with normal moral standards), then you end up with the businesses implementing racist practices too.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#70

Post by tim333 »

united893 wrote: post #44
tim333 wrote: post #18

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation: "Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems The Golden Shield Project: Public Network Information Security Monitor System • Stop the network-related crimes • Guarantee the security and services of public network • Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles [Note: Statement of Government goals from s…

Falun Gong is an evil litigious cult created in 1992 as a way to raise money for the founders and cult leaders. They're unscrupulous, including promising terminally ill cancer patients the possibility of healing if they just redirect their remaining wealth toward the cult. They're the Chinese equivalent to Scientology, but even worse. Their teachings are racing, homophobic, sexist and misogynistic. They preached that…

Wikipedia doesn't make them sound so bad - "three central tenets of the belief are Truthfulness (真, Zhēn), Compassion (善, Shàn), and Forbearance"

The troubles seem to stem from "April 1999, when over 10,000 Falun Gong practitioners gathered peacefully near the central government compound in Beijing to request legal recognition and freedom from state interference."

I guess peaceful demonstrations against the state are going to get you tiananmen squared over there.

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