Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 126 posts

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#41

Post by quantumpotato_ »

meowface wrote: post #38
tim333 wrote: post #18

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation: "Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems The Golden Shield Project: Public Network Information Security Monitor System • Stop the network-related crimes • Guarantee the security and services of public network • Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles [Note: Statement of Government goals from s…

I didn't know a lot about Falun Gong, and did some research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... The fact that there is even a Wikipedia article with this title is horrifying. >Falun Gong practitioners in Changchun intercepted eight cable television networks in Jilin Province, and for nearly an hour, televised a program titled "Self-Immolation or a Staged Act?". All six of the Falun Gong p…

I talked with a Chinese person who told me why. His explanation:

Falun Gong exercises (Tai-Chi like) improved the health of their practicioners. The communist party supported Falun Gong practice because it lowered their healthcare costs.

Until there were more members of Falun Gong than Communist party officials. So the latter began hunting the former.

Some Chinese fled China, and that's how the West know about Falun Gong.

Very sad state of affairs.

http://en.falundafa.org/

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#42

Post by vanattab »

nitrogen wrote: post #36
hyperdunc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When engaging with a prospective customer, why should corporations not make a moral judgement about how their goods and services will be used?

If one is not careful, that idea leads to backwater businesses bringing back racial segregation, etc. Rather, I think human rights should be vigorously protected and clearly defined to avoid such slippery slopes.

What? How does the parents comment, which suggested that corporations should consider moral implementations along side the economic ones when making decisions, lead to racial segregation?

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#43

Post by est »

quantumpotato_ wrote: post #41
meowface wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know a lot about Falun Gong, and did some research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... The fact that there is even a Wikipedia article with this title is horrifying. >Falun Gong practitioners in Changchun intercepted eight cable television networks in Jilin Province, and for nearly an hour, televised a program titled "Self-Immolation or a Staged Act?". All six of the Falun Gong p…

I talked with a Chinese person who told me why. His explanation: Falun Gong exercises (Tai-Chi like) improved the health of their practicioners. The communist party supported Falun Gong practice because it lowered their healthcare costs. Until there were more members of Falun Gong than Communist party officials. So the latter began hunting the former. Some Chinese fled China, and that's how the West know about Falun…

Falun was banned by mainland China simply because it's a Taiwan backed cult organization to gather intel & support coup in government seniors and military. The rest is media propaganda.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#44

Post by united893 »

tim333 wrote: post #18

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation: "Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems The Golden Shield Project: Public Network Information Security Monitor System • Stop the network-related crimes • Guarantee the security and services of public network • Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles [Note: Statement of Government goals from s…

Falun Gong is an evil litigious cult created in 1992 as a way to raise money for the founders and cult leaders.

They're unscrupulous, including promising terminally ill cancer patients the possibility of healing if they just redirect their remaining wealth toward the cult.

They're the Chinese equivalent to Scientology, but even worse. Their teachings are racing, homophobic, sexist and misogynistic. They preached that UFOs had arrived on earth; aliens had taken over human bodies, and were trying to annihilate humanity through the control of TV and radio.

See: http://www.cultnews.com/2010/10/falun-gong-is-good/

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#45

Post by mtgx »

Glad this is finally coming to light. Every time I would mention it here that Cisco has built backdoors in its routers specifically to aid the Chinese government and later other governments as well, I would get downvoted. Cisco standardized the "lawful intercept" protocol for routers at the IETF, people! What did you think that meant?!

The US government (hopefully after it elects a saner president) and other supposedly democratic countries as well, need to come together and 1) make it clear that you can't sell tools which you know are being used for mass censorship and mass surveillance that then leads to torture or assassinations and whatnot (I know, this definition will need to be cleaned up a bit), and 2) punish the companies that still disobey those rules severely. It's time for the democratic countries to act the way they say they are.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#46

Post by nitrogen »

vanattab wrote: post #42
nitrogen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one is not careful, that idea leads to backwater businesses bringing back racial segregation, etc. Rather, I think human rights should be vigorously protected and clearly defined to avoid such slippery slopes.

What? How does the parents comment, which suggested that corporations should consider moral implementations along side the economic ones when making decisions, lead to racial segregation?

The same moral arguments are used to justify discrimination. Businesses today in the US are refusing to provide healthcare to employees (Hobby Lobby), or refusing to serve certain sexual orientations (various wedding services), and they claim it's because they are morally opposed to whatever group they discriminate against. 60 years ago, the same moral rhetoric justified forced racial segregation in the US.

So when we say companies should refuse to serve customers on moral grounds, we have to be sure just which morals we're talking about.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#47

Post by cpjk »

united893 wrote: post #44
tim333 wrote: post #18

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation: "Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems The Golden Shield Project: Public Network Information Security Monitor System • Stop the network-related crimes • Guarantee the security and services of public network • Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles [Note: Statement of Government goals from s…

Falun Gong is an evil litigious cult created in 1992 as a way to raise money for the founders and cult leaders. They're unscrupulous, including promising terminally ill cancer patients the possibility of healing if they just redirect their remaining wealth toward the cult. They're the Chinese equivalent to Scientology, but even worse. Their teachings are racing, homophobic, sexist and misogynistic. They preached that…

Does that make it right to persecute and torture them?

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#48

Post by argonaut »

StLCylone wrote: post #26
Nutmog wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a reference for "virtual enslavement" to Foxconn? Last I heard, people were lining up to get jobs there and with enough working hours, the pay was higher than what a university graduate makes. If you call paying people so much they don't want to leave "enslavement" then perhaps that's right, but it also means it's not really bad.

http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-...

Foxconn employs nearly a million people. You are going to get quite a few suicides no matter what you do. Their suicide rate is below the China population average.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#49

Post by witty_username »

vanattab wrote: post #42
nitrogen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one is not careful, that idea leads to backwater businesses bringing back racial segregation, etc. Rather, I think human rights should be vigorously protected and clearly defined to avoid such slippery slopes.

What? How does the parents comment, which suggested that corporations should consider moral implementations along side the economic ones when making decisions, lead to racial segregation?

Corporation feels it is more moral to employ white people and give more pay to them. Or that it isn't moral to allow homosexuals into the company.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#50

Post by wmt »

est wrote: post #43
quantumpotato_ wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked with a Chinese person who told me why. His explanation: Falun Gong exercises (Tai-Chi like) improved the health of their practicioners. The communist party supported Falun Gong practice because it lowered their healthcare costs. Until there were more members of Falun Gong than Communist party officials. So the latter began hunting the former. Some Chinese fled China, and that's how the West know about Falun…

Falun was banned by mainland China simply because it's a Taiwan backed cult organization to gather intel & support coup in government seniors and military. The rest is media propaganda.

Yeah right. Until 1999 it received wide support from Chinese officials, but then decided it was too big and started a silly propaganda campaign feeding the gullible with lies like you just told at the same time when they started a violent persecution.

At least they had learned something from the bloody Tienanmen massacre, and this time instead sending military to murder piles of unarmed civilians carried out the murders a bit more covertly.

Post reply on HN