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Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

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Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#21

Post by fixermark »

tim333 wrote: post #18

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation: "Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems The Golden Shield Project: Public Network Information Security Monitor System • Stop the network-related crimes • Guarantee the security and services of public network • Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles [Note: Statement of Government goals from s…

I dunno. People still do business with IBM, and they worked with the German government on the census system that tracked victims of the holocaust during WWII.

IBM's existant history didn't put Cisco off of doing business with China.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#22

Post by ivuycggc »

voronoff wrote: post #19
delinka wrote: post #4

Governments of the world have to care about human rights abuses before someone with teeth can prosecute. I sincerely doubt anyone in power (elected, appointed, hired) in any government cares at all about random humans at distance. Especially if caring would affect their own quality of life.

That's an absurd proposition. Even if you have an incredibly cynical view of humanity, it's extremely unlikely to be unable to find someone in a government with power who holds any reasonable common position of the general populace.

Those people seem plenty OK to aide and assist an entity which tortures and commits war crimes, mass murder, genocide, so they have more common with a member of ISIS than they do with any sane human.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#23

Post by iofj »

The problem there is not the US government. The problem there is religion - a specific religion to be extact. Once we start actually holding islam to the standard of modernity we may make progress here, but as long as we shy away from criticizing and shaming the religion publicly - it will keep doing this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human...

Meanwhile Saudi Arabia is the chair of the meeting that is supposed to oversee implementation of the treaty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Co...

The guy that Saudi Arabia elected for this role has been convicted - multiple times - for abusing and locking up "personal assistants".

The problem here is not the US supporting Saudi Arabia. We need to shame islam and take it kicking and screaming into the 20th century. Half of the quran needs to be declared to be toilet paper and nothing more, and then we can talk.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#24

Post by acdha »

iofj wrote: post #23

The problem there is not the US government. The problem there is religion - a specific religion to be extact. Once we start actually holding islam to the standard of modernity we may make progress here, but as long as we shy away from criticizing and shaming the religion publicly - it will keep doing this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human... Meanwhile Saudi Arabia is the chair of the meeti…

Are all Christians to blame for e.g. Uganda's kill the gays law the same way you seem to believe all Muslims are for Saudi Arabia?

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#25

Post by mc32 »

It's not the people who provide goods who should be prosecuted but the people who carry out the actual bad who must be held to account. On the other hand, China [or any country with baddies, perh including our own] is a sovereign government and beside some economic pressure I don't know there is much more we should be able to do. Unless Cisco violated some commercial embargo or egregiously violated export law, etc.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#26

Post by StLCylone »

Nutmog wrote: post #11
StLCylone wrote: post #7

So should you since that device you are reading this on was most likely sourced there. Likely sourced by underpaid workers in virtual enslavement to Foxconn or some other component manufacturer. Not to mention living in a toxic environment so we can all have our electronic toys.

Do you have a reference for "virtual enslavement" to Foxconn? Last I heard, people were lining up to get jobs there and with enough working hours, the pay was higher than what a university graduate makes. If you call paying people so much they don't want to leave "enslavement" then perhaps that's right, but it also means it's not really bad.

http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-...

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#27

Post by csours »

fixermark wrote: post #21
tim333 wrote: post #18

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation: "Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems The Golden Shield Project: Public Network Information Security Monitor System • Stop the network-related crimes • Guarantee the security and services of public network • Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles [Note: Statement of Government goals from s…

I dunno. People still do business with IBM, and they worked with the German government on the census system that tracked victims of the holocaust during WWII. IBM's existant history didn't put Cisco off of doing business with China.

IBM kind of claims that their subsidiary was more or less nationalized during the Nazi period. [1] However squishy and self-serving that claim is, Cisco doesn't even have that defense. War and human rights were going through a discovery period from WWI through the 1970's. In the 2000's there's not really an excuse for not scrutinizing what your products will be used for around the world.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#28

Post by PhasmaFelis »

ivuycggc wrote: post #22
voronoff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an absurd proposition. Even if you have an incredibly cynical view of humanity, it's extremely unlikely to be unable to find someone in a government with power who holds any reasonable common position of the general populace.

Those people seem plenty OK to aide and assist an entity which tortures and commits war crimes, mass murder, genocide, so they have more common with a member of ISIS than they do with any sane human.

Delinka very specifically said any person in any position of governmental authority, including ones who were merely hired to do a job. Saying that, I dunno, the office manager at the local agriculture bureau is an insane terrorist and complicit in war crimes and genocide and is kinda stupid.

Re: Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses

#30

Post by cmurf »

fixermark wrote: post #21
tim333 wrote: post #18

It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation: "Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems The Golden Shield Project: Public Network Information Security Monitor System • Stop the network-related crimes • Guarantee the security and services of public network • Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles [Note: Statement of Government goals from s…

I dunno. People still do business with IBM, and they worked with the German government on the census system that tracked victims of the holocaust during WWII. IBM's existant history didn't put Cisco off of doing business with China.

IBM did that work before the 1980 Filartiga v. Pena-Irala case, which is what enables the remedy being sought in this case. In the former case, those injuries are a part of history, whereas in the latter case they are on-going so it's also a question of standing.
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