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Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

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Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#71

Post by rfrank »

bjshepard wrote: post #59
rfrank wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done it several times (as well as basically all popular hallucinogens). I know all about the drug, its impacts on the brain, what it's actually like being on it, etc. I've also lived around many drippy hippie types in Santa Cruz, and the new wave of "microdosing is the key to creative coding" types, and their insights are equally bullshit to me.

Ok, but I don't know if anything you just said entails the claim that "Anyone who says LSD makes you smarter is stupid" -- I may be stupid, but I don't think the argument that (a) LSD offers a temporary alternate form of consciousness that (b) can lead to valuable insights and discoveries which (c) improve your overall cognition is a bad one.

Cocaine leads to a temporary alternate form of consciousness that may or may not lead to valuable insights too. So does ecstacy, or ketamine, or modafinil, or coffee, or weed, or the 2c-X family, or whatever RC you want to take, or yoga, or meditation. A temporary change in perception is not an increase in intelligence.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#72

Post by kolbe »

kazinator wrote: post #62
kolbe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add another reason why his analogy was irrelevant and misleading, no one got thrown in jail. Lumosity got fined 0.01% of what some bank fines have been over the past few years.

Relax, I was just posting a deliberate piece of hyperbole to test whether someone might want to fine me.

Then why the downvote? If I was just falling into your deliberate trap, you shouldn't be taking it out on my karma.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#73

Post by nostromo »

mkhalil wrote: post #15

Dual n-back, coffee, LSD. All things people swear make you smarter. Coffee has proven to make brain work better. But it's only temporary. LSD...well, I've never tried it, but people swear by it. Not sure if scientists would be allowed to try it on test cases.

* These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#74

Post by kazinator »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #53
kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

I disagree wrt. carrots and shills. We already tolerate too much lying to people, but there have to be some limits. Common misconceptions are one thing. People trying to defraud you (and let's call a spade a spade - if you're lying to me to take my money, you're defrauding me) by turning common misconception into what looks like a scientific fact? That's way out of line.

They are just selling fun puzzles. What you see is what you get. Even if you wrongly believe that puzzles have some benefit they do not, you don't have to buy puzzle from them; the false belief applies to all puzzles you can get anywhere, including free sources: Internet, library books, ...

There seems to be evidence that mental activity saves off cognitive decline --- just not that it can cure Alzheimer's and such.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100302151242.ht...

http://healthland.time.com/2013/04/15/mental-exercises-are-m...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201403... (#6 - brain training games)

http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Health-News/mental-activity-de...

http://www.healthcentral.com/alzheimers/c/42/151976/exercisi...

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#75

Post by Snowdax »

lettergram wrote: post #10

I just wanted to share my thoughts, which are simply: "Thank God!" I've been working on a startup: http://synaptitude.me/ (demo is old) Essentially, we can do some of what Luminosity claims (and have independent studies to prove it). Every time someone goes: "Oh it's just like Lumosity" I have to go through and explain the difference. My wife has a degree in neuroscience and I minored in BioE, and we both just HATE L…

I wouldn't quite be going "Thank God!" if I was you on this news. It could end up that now when people go "Oh it's just like Lumosity" it could potentially be with the added tinge now of "Are you trying to mislead me too?"

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#76

Post by avodonosov »

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

From experience using lumocity games, I am sure people who develop these games don't use them - there were annoyances and blockers which are too obvious and constantly present during the game process. If they were playing themselves they would fix it I think.

Also their approach to metrics was too unscientific.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#77

Post by ksk »

rfrank wrote: post #44
bjshepard wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To understand the experience of LSD, I recommend "The New Alchemy" by Alan Watts. http://www.psychedelic-library.org/alchemy.htm

I've done it several times (as well as basically all popular hallucinogens). I know all about the drug, its impacts on the brain, what it's actually like being on it, etc. I've also lived around many drippy hippie types in Santa Cruz, and the new wave of "microdosing is the key to creative coding" types, and their insights are equally bullshit to me.

If you know all about the drug as you say, then you should also know that it has different effects for different people. Why do you automatically assume that people claiming to have benefited from LSD are stupid?

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#78

Post by kazinator »

ebbv wrote: post #66
kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

> The FTC is being very heavy-handed here. Are you kidding me? A quick Google search turned up revenue of $24 million in 2013. 2014 and 2015 numbers did not come up on my quick search, but I'd imagine based on the amount of advertising they do it's at least held steady. And then there's the many millions of investment dollars they received before that. $2 million is not even a slap on the wrist. It's like blowing in…

$24 million revenue isn't net income after all the expenses and taxes.

2/24 is 8%. How would you like to be fined 8% of your yearly salary?

Make $100k as a developer? $8k please!

Good thing I'm not blowing gently in your other ear; that would be 16 thou.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#79

Post by hyperion2010 »

I wrote my prelims on these kinds of 'training' paradigms and there is zero credible experimental evidence that ANY of them actually generalize to things like fluid intelligence or g. For an excellent overview on the real state of the science see here [0].

0. http://longevity3.stanford.edu/blog/2014/10/15/the-consensus...

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#80

Post by cmrdporcupine »

rfrank wrote: post #44
bjshepard wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To understand the experience of LSD, I recommend "The New Alchemy" by Alan Watts. http://www.psychedelic-library.org/alchemy.htm

I've done it several times (as well as basically all popular hallucinogens). I know all about the drug, its impacts on the brain, what it's actually like being on it, etc. I've also lived around many drippy hippie types in Santa Cruz, and the new wave of "microdosing is the key to creative coding" types, and their insights are equally bullshit to me.

I agree. "Coding" requires concentration, attention to consistency and detail, organization, and sitting in one place for many hours.

None of those things are anything like what I'd describe experience of LSD, even at very low doses, is like. Rather, I'd say the opposite.

When I was a kid I'd open my VIC-20 and deliberately "circuit bend" it; make connections across the data or address bus that would cause garble to show on the screen, etc. I think of many hallucinogens of acting in the same category; they have an effect, a very interesting effect, and alter the experience of the world. But not in any kind of systematic organized fashion.

The chief insight from taking something like LSD is that perception is plastic. Which most of us know already. After you learn that lesson there's not much more to learn and it becomes a purely aesthetic, and quite uncomfortable, experience.

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