Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app • Hacker News Board

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#61

Post by arbitrage » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:08 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

The FTC is doing it's job. You can' make arbitrary medical claims, and not expect to have to prove them.

This is the same sort of thing that a lot of people criticized the FDA over for going after Cheerios for making claims about being healthy for your heart.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124216077825612187

It's a good thing that there are parts of the government out there making sure you can't just make up whatever you want to sell a product.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#62

Post by kazinator » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:09 PM UTC

kolbe wrote: post #60

nkrisc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like someone sold carrots claiming they improve vision, and got thrown in jail. No, it's not. It's like they were appropriately fined for profiting off unproven medical claims. > Testimonials being paid for shills? Like, say it ain't so. Every damed commercial you've ever seen in your life has fake people presenting fake testimonials. It's assumed. And they're labelled as an actor representation. Giving them a…

To add another reason why his analogy was irrelevant and misleading, no one got thrown in jail. Lumosity got fined 0.01% of what some bank fines have been over the past few years.

Relax, I was just posting a deliberate piece of hyperbole to test whether someone might want to fine me.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#63

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:10 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

> The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief, rather than fears.

Yes, and they trumpeted it several times per day in a variety of advertising channels

While the belief may exist, they had deceptive ads turned to 11. You don't see puzzles or similar product being advertised almost 24/7 on tv.

I think the FTC is not being heavy handed at all

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#64

Post by arbitrage » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:11 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #10

I just wanted to share my thoughts, which are simply: "Thank God!" I've been working on a startup: http://synaptitude.me/ (demo is old) Essentially, we can do some of what Luminosity claims (and have independent studies to prove it). Every time someone goes: "Oh it's just like Lumosity" I have to go through and explain the difference. My wife has a degree in neuroscience and I minored in BioE, and we both just HATE L…

What do you do that's different?

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#65

Post by nostromo » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:11 PM UTC

Where does that money go?

I really hope the FTC doesn't get it. It's a conflict of interest that permeates local law enforcement all across America.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#66

Post by ebbv » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:13 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

> The FTC is being very heavy-handed here.

Are you kidding me? A quick Google search turned up revenue of $24 million in 2013. 2014 and 2015 numbers did not come up on my quick search, but I'd imagine based on the amount of advertising they do it's at least held steady. And then there's the many millions of investment dollars they received before that. $2 million is not even a slap on the wrist. It's like blowing in their ear gently.

As far as Lumosity believing their own claims, first this is not a mom and pop store. They have the resources to know for sure whether or not it's true, and they have a duty to find that out before making claims. Second, I don't buy it. Anybody with half a brain knows it's baloney.

Lastly, as far as I can see they're not being forced to make amends to the customers they ripped off, nor to make public apologies for false claims AND if they can gin up some bullshit study to support their claims (shouldn't be hard with their resources), they can continue making them.

Also the whole time this lawsuit has been going on, I've been hearing claims that don't differ much from the ones in violation on NPR constantly. Just enough to skirt the law.

Heavy handed my left foot.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#67

Post by untilHellbanned » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:15 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #57

untilHellbanned wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm impressed your comment hasn't gotten downvoted to oblivion. Every time I express this same point I get my ass kicked (Soon to be professor with Ph.D in molecular biology and 2 years of medical training all at top 5 institutions).

Looks like the crowd agrees with my post (currently at 38 upvotes), but it suddenly got pushed down below several others a few minutes ago. Perhaps intervention from the mods?

mentioning intervention by mods is always good for a few downvotes. Sad but not unexpected. Can't avoid the po-po wherever you go.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#68

Post by tlrobinson » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:15 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

Are you sure the FTC wouldn't go after a carrot company marketing carrots as improving vision? I've never seen them try, have you?

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#69

Post by nkrisc » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:16 PM UTC

kolbe wrote: post #60

nkrisc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like someone sold carrots claiming they improve vision, and got thrown in jail. No, it's not. It's like they were appropriately fined for profiting off unproven medical claims. > Testimonials being paid for shills? Like, say it ain't so. Every damed commercial you've ever seen in your life has fake people presenting fake testimonials. It's assumed. And they're labelled as an actor representation. Giving them a…

To add another reason why his analogy was irrelevant and misleading, no one got thrown in jail. Lumosity got fined 0.01% of what some bank fines have been over the past few years.

That is also a good point, though I don't see how the comparison to what banks were fined is relevant or enlightening.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#70

Post by kevinalexbrown » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 9:17 PM UTC

One intuitive way to categorize products is according to the observability of the value. In one class, it's readily apparent: the storage is cheaper, it doesn't fail very often, there's little downtime, my payments always go through, the user experience just feels better, all my friends use it. This doesn't have to be objective, just 'noticeable'.

On the other hand, it's hard to judge the value of an encryption app, or a brain training program, because the true value is often hidden. It's difficult to tell, at least for the average consumer whether an encryption app works. There might be signs for the more immediately knowledgeable ('why won't the passwords take special characters, or passwords longer than 12 characters?'), but it's usually a small group.

Unfortunately, this is probably going to make it harder for the latter kind of company to grow quickly, because trust takes time to develop. I don't just need to trust that my data will be safe - the entire value of the product depends on my trust that it does what it says.

I have no idea if lumosity does what it claimed, but I doubt I could easily tell in a day or two. Contrast that with instagram or a better computer - the value (however large or small) is obvious.