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Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

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Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#51

Post by nkrisc »

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

> It's like someone sold carrots claiming they improve vision, and got thrown in jail.

No, it's not. It's like they were appropriately fined for profiting off unproven medical claims.

> Testimonials being paid for shills? Like, say it ain't so. Every damed commercial you've ever seen in your life has fake people presenting fake testimonials. It's assumed.

And they're labelled as an actor representation. Giving them a pass because it's "assumed" is irresponsible and harmful to those who might not otherwise know.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#52

Post by ljk »

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

> The FTC is being very heavy-handed here.

It might be done to make an example out of them. Also imo a more accurate comparison would be Dr. Oz and the "wonder powder" he advertises

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#53

Post by TeMPOraL »

kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

I disagree wrt. carrots and shills. We already tolerate too much lying to people, but there have to be some limits. Common misconceptions are one thing. People trying to defraud you (and let's call a spade a spade - if you're lying to me to take my money, you're defrauding me) by turning common misconception into what looks like a scientific fact? That's way out of line.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#54

Post by geoelectric »

lettergram wrote: post #26
n0us wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see how this sort of thing could benefit people with traumatic brain injuries as it would be a great service to people suffering from this sort of malady but also probably easier to measure the effects on this group compared to a bunch of average individuals.

That is one area we really want to study, to see if there is any way we can benefit. We are sure it can monitor concussions, but to what extent is still to be determined. However, we don't have funding at this point (partially because we want to avoid Luminosity's fate of being tied to growth), so we are just focusing on getting a fully developed product that some psychologists we are working with would use.

Are you investigating efficacy for ADHD at all? I know "cognitive training" has been used in therapy for it, and the symptoms overlap with TBIs.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#55

Post by thaumasiotes »

intrasight wrote: post #49
thaumasiotes wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm... on the one hand, I've always thought lumosity was obviously woo. On the other hand, you could make exactly the same claims ("1) improve performance on everyday tasks, in school, at work, and in athletics; 2) delay age-related cognitive decline and protect against mild cognitive impairment, dementia, and Alzheimer’s disease; and 3) reduce cognitive impairment associated with health conditions, including stroke,…

Supplements industry lobbied congress to pass a law exempting them from FDA regulation.

Sure -- but Lumosity can't be prosecuted under FDA regulation, unless the scope of "food and drugs" has undergone some fairly significant expansion. I assume supplements are still subject to the FTC.

There is no plausible argument that it's fine to make unsubstantiated health-related claims in order to sell your edible product that is intended to be bioactive, but not in order to sell your video games. In terms of potential harm to consumers, the ratio there could best be approximated as 100-to-0.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#56

Post by pj_mukh »

lettergram wrote: post #10

I just wanted to share my thoughts, which are simply: "Thank God!" I've been working on a startup: http://synaptitude.me/ (demo is old) Essentially, we can do some of what Luminosity claims (and have independent studies to prove it). Every time someone goes: "Oh it's just like Lumosity" I have to go through and explain the difference. My wife has a degree in neuroscience and I minored in BioE, and we both just HATE L…

Woah. I like this. Signed up. This is the specific reason I wanted a system like this.

Please don't spam me with updates :P. Just awaiting access to Beta.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#57

Post by w1ntermute »

untilHellbanned wrote: post #45
w1ntermute wrote: post #7

Great article on this trend of investors/entrepreneurs with no scientific background thinking they can get into the space and "shake things up": Silicon Valley is confusing pseudo-science with innovation [0] > I don’t think all the VC firms that are moving into the space know what they’re doing — so I think you only need a couple of nasty failures to get them to pull back. Take Pathway Genomics, for instance, which w…

I'm impressed your comment hasn't gotten downvoted to oblivion. Every time I express this same point I get my ass kicked (Soon to be professor with Ph.D in molecular biology and 2 years of medical training all at top 5 institutions).

Looks like the crowd agrees with my post (currently at 38 upvotes), but it suddenly got pushed down below several others a few minutes ago. Perhaps intervention from the mods?

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#58

Post by TeMPOraL »

jonlucc wrote: post #36
revelation wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means they don't have $50m. I'd say that shouldn't matter, we don't give the poor a discount on parking tickets either (actually, we usually make them more expensive).

I have seen a proposal to make the cost of tickets based on value of the car. The thinking is that a person with an Audi is not at all disturbed by paying a $20 parking fine, so it isn't an incentive. It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement.

It would most likely only create incentive to fake the value of the car so that it seems lower than it is.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#59

Post by bjshepard »

rfrank wrote: post #44
bjshepard wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To understand the experience of LSD, I recommend "The New Alchemy" by Alan Watts. http://www.psychedelic-library.org/alchemy.htm

I've done it several times (as well as basically all popular hallucinogens). I know all about the drug, its impacts on the brain, what it's actually like being on it, etc. I've also lived around many drippy hippie types in Santa Cruz, and the new wave of "microdosing is the key to creative coding" types, and their insights are equally bullshit to me.

Ok, but I don't know if anything you just said entails the claim that "Anyone who says LSD makes you smarter is stupid" -- I may be stupid, but I don't think the argument that (a) LSD offers a temporary alternate form of consciousness that (b) can lead to valuable insights and discoveries which (c) improve your overall cognition is a bad one.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#60

Post by kolbe »

nkrisc wrote: post #51
kazinator wrote: post #47

The way I see it, they tapped into a widely held belief , rather than fears. It is a popular belief that doing mental work staves off cognitive decline (including age-related). I bet you that everyone at Lumosity actually believes it because their mother told them that when they were kids. My wife (Japanese) always says "good for older people" about any sort of puzzle. She didn't get this from being deceived by Lumos…

> It's like someone sold carrots claiming they improve vision, and got thrown in jail. No, it's not. It's like they were appropriately fined for profiting off unproven medical claims. > Testimonials being paid for shills? Like, say it ain't so. Every damed commercial you've ever seen in your life has fake people presenting fake testimonials. It's assumed. And they're labelled as an actor representation. Giving them a…

To add another reason why his analogy was irrelevant and misleading, no one got thrown in jail. Lumosity got fined 0.01% of what some bank fines have been over the past few years.
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