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“Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

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Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#51

Post by rdancer »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #45
rdancer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a cloistered mind that cannot make that leap.

Cloistered by the filter bubbles. Though Twain's essay suggests it's not a new phenomenon. People tend to group together with those who believe similar things, each confirming preconceptions of the others. From inside of such a group it always looks like everyone else are sheeple that need to wake up.

Your are sheeple. But that doesn't mean that I am not. People are very painfully reminded of their imperfection on a daily basis. They don't always care to keep it in mind, or take it into account, but surely they are aware.

Are you saying that people are not aware that their opinions may not be as ironclad as they sometimes seem?

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#52

Post by TeMPOraL »

rdancer wrote: post #51
TeMPOraL wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloistered by the filter bubbles. Though Twain's essay suggests it's not a new phenomenon. People tend to group together with those who believe similar things, each confirming preconceptions of the others. From inside of such a group it always looks like everyone else are sheeple that need to wake up.

Your are sheeple. But that doesn't mean that I am not. People are very painfully reminded of their imperfection on a daily basis. They don't always care to keep it in mind, or take it into account, but surely they are aware. Are you saying that people are not aware that their opinions may not be as ironclad as they sometimes seem?

> Are you saying that people are not aware that their opinions may not be as ironclad as they sometimes seem?

That's the impression I'm getting when talking with many of them. Or when browsing the more mainstream parts of the Internet.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#53

Post by rdancer »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #52
rdancer wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your are sheeple. But that doesn't mean that I am not. People are very painfully reminded of their imperfection on a daily basis. They don't always care to keep it in mind, or take it into account, but surely they are aware. Are you saying that people are not aware that their opinions may not be as ironclad as they sometimes seem?

> Are you saying that people are not aware that their opinions may not be as ironclad as they sometimes seem? That's the impression I'm getting when talking with many of them. Or when browsing the more mainstream parts of the Internet.

Here's to us being the lucky few who can see that we're fallible, while the sheeple wallow in their ignorance ;-)

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#54

Post by TeMPOraL »

rdancer wrote: post #53
TeMPOraL wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you saying that people are not aware that their opinions may not be as ironclad as they sometimes seem? That's the impression I'm getting when talking with many of them. Or when browsing the more mainstream parts of the Internet.

Here's to us being the lucky few who can see that we're fallible, while the sheeple wallow in their ignorance ;-)

:). I'm happy being a meta-sheeple, because thinking too much about it only makes one's head hurt. ;).

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#55

Post by aaronem »

narag wrote: post #49
kcorbitt wrote: post #2

I agree with this sentiment in general, especially that our own feeling of self-worth can be determined to a fair degree by the opinions of people we surround ourselves with, and that this drives conformity. However, I'd add an important corollary, and one that is perhaps a bit less cynical :). Even if it's mostly true that you can only feel fulfilled when your actions and opinions are approved by your peers, you sti…

It doesn't seem that Twain thinks it's impossible to see through your interests. He also says to have "studied" some question, that suggest he believes it could be considered rationally. Both the preacher and Twain's philosophy are very independent thinking themselves. So it's a matter of numbers. A huge proportion of society is easily manipulated by showing them a "manufactured consensus." (Chomsky dixit)

> A huge proportion of society is easily manipulated by showing them a "manufactured consensus."

And for the rest, you just need to pander to their belief that they're immune to that sort of thing.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#56

Post by marktangotango »

rdancer wrote: post #50
Bulkington wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to inject a cynical slant to your hopeful suggestion that people 'today more than ever' can chose their peers. People with a certain education supported by an infrastructure (personal and technological) that allows for choice have this flexibility, but those without see only the threat of 'the other,' not an opportunity to rethink fundamental principles. Worse, political leaders continue to exploit ignorance…

Protestant conservatives support Republican corporatist policy for the same reason urban hipsters support Democrat corporatist policy: because the vote tallying rules strongly favour a two-party system, and the parties they respectively support at least pretend to care about them, while the majority of the Nation sees them as a laughing stock. It speaks to their moral fibre that they are willing to put up with econom…

This characterization is often put forth to explain how the poor can support the Republicans:

>> These folks who would benefit from social reforms reject all such liberal notions because, well, they still believe anyone who's not white and Christian is out to take away what little they have.

In my experience, coming from fly over country, the real thought process could not be further removed. Where I came from, self reliance and self determination were prized. We might be poor as hell, heating our home with wood we cut, and eating food we grew and shot, but so was everyone else in our area, and there was nothing wrong with that. We weren't taking hand outs and getting along just fine (embellishing and paraphrasing try to make the point here). The idea being, everyone could do this, but were too lazy. We were poor, but not impoverished.

The gp's characterization is actually quite offensive to these people.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#57

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

aaronem wrote: post #55
narag wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem that Twain thinks it's impossible to see through your interests. He also says to have "studied" some question, that suggest he believes it could be considered rationally. Both the preacher and Twain's philosophy are very independent thinking themselves. So it's a matter of numbers. A huge proportion of society is easily manipulated by showing them a "manufactured consensus." (Chomsky dixit)

> A huge proportion of society is easily manipulated by showing them a "manufactured consensus." And for the rest, you just need to pander to their belief that they're immune to that sort of thing.

I think Twain is indulging himself. He's conflating trivial social conventions about dinner arrangements and clothes, with deeply-felt political positions, with social and financial farming of political influence.

There's evidence that far from being social conventions, political biases are partly neurological. Whether the biases are due to nature or nurture, brain function can't usefully be reduced to superficial observations about creative thinking or self interest.

Twain should at least have noticed that voters reliably support people who take away their bread/corn instead of supplying it.

In fact humans are quite incredibly bad at calculating genuine self interest. We seem to be programmed to equate effective leadership with a certain kind of strutting acquisitive self-indulgence and macho mammal posturing. Being a follower of same can often be a terrible way to meet your bread needs - but a very good way to be treated as a disposable resource.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#58

Post by wrecktangle »

rdancer wrote: post #47
wrecktangle wrote: post #9

And it readily brings the famous Nazareth's evangelist to mind- Jesus Christ. Considering the 6 stages of his blasphemy trials between Religious and Roman courtrooms (especially, the burdened denial of right and wrong between Herod and Pilate). And contrasting that unfortunate crisis of conscience greeted by the reported mob justice with how many billion people today follow a religion borne of Christ's personality, i…

I like how on an article about crowd conformity and how certain thoughts may come to be frowned upon, your comment gets downvoted because it's Christian.

Try your very best.

Read that comment until understanding gives way.

You should realize that the comment whiffs of a lack of religion.

Unless of course you delight in dissension for the sake of its inanity.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#60

Post by rdancer »

wrecktangle wrote: post #58
rdancer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how on an article about crowd conformity and how certain thoughts may come to be frowned upon, your comment gets downvoted because it's Christian.

Try your very best. Read that comment until understanding gives way. You should realize that the comment whiffs of a lack of religion. Unless of course you delight in dissension for the sake of its inanity.

Your comment talks about the Good News, and does that with respect to the reader. It has hope that people may read it and consider it. And you call him "Christ"

Love-hope-faith + evangelizing + acceptance of Jesus for what he claims he is => your comment couldn't be more Christian.

What am I missing?

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