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“Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

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Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#41

Post by TeMPOraL »

dpweb wrote: post #29
JadeNB wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In deciding to be exceptional, I'm thinking of the courageous act of separating yourself from the crowd when it's safer to conform, when faced with a binary decision between the two. I still think that this decision is one concerning becoming , rather than being , exceptional. That is, I think of being exceptional as the accumulated result of good decisions, rather than as a single (even lifelong) decision in its o…

The technologist, specifically the software developer (ie.. the typical HN reader) seems to often be a non-conformist, even contrarian. Why do you think that is? Cause we think we're smarter than everyone else, is my theory!

It's funny that when people ask what use in their lives will learning math and science have, we answer that it's about the clarity and discipline in thinking that will make them smarter - and then we turn around and refuse to believe that people whose training is in applying math and science to life can actually be smarter.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#42

Post by TeMPOraL »

JadeNB wrote: post #40
dpweb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technologist, specifically the software developer (ie.. the typical HN reader) seems to often be a non-conformist, even contrarian. Why do you think that is? Cause we think we're smarter than everyone else, is my theory!

> The technologist, specifically the software developer (ie.. the typical HN reader) seems to often be a non-conformist, even contrarian. Why do you think that is? I'm a mathematician, not a software developer, but I think that both professions train their practitioners to believe that the way to get good tools (or theorems) is to try to break them, and to keep only those that survive—a 'confrontational' approach tha…

Often not immediately agreeing with a mainstream opinion, or stopping by to evaluate pros and cons, is seen as being contrarian or signaling smarts.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#43

Post by Bulkington »

kcorbitt wrote: post #2

I agree with this sentiment in general, especially that our own feeling of self-worth can be determined to a fair degree by the opinions of people we surround ourselves with, and that this drives conformity. However, I'd add an important corollary, and one that is perhaps a bit less cynical :). Even if it's mostly true that you can only feel fulfilled when your actions and opinions are approved by your peers, you sti…

Allow me to inject a cynical slant to your hopeful suggestion that people 'today more than ever' can chose their peers. People with a certain education supported by an infrastructure (personal and technological) that allows for choice have this flexibility, but those without see only the threat of 'the other,' not an opportunity to rethink fundamental principles. Worse, political leaders continue to exploit ignorance, but with sophisticated mass communication tools and technologies Twain could never have imagined.

Prominent examples:

1. Lower-middle class Southern whites in the U.S. (with whom Twain was intimately familiar) embrace right-wing rhetoric (devout opposition to a godless, liberal govt that rewards a free-loading underclass) while the Republican Party caves to the self-interest of the mega-corp oligarchy. These folks who would benefit from social reforms reject all such liberal notions because, well, they still believe anyone who's not white and Christian is out to take away what little they have. But regressive conservative tax policy is actually doing them harm. (tl;dr: see the success of Fox News, with its overwhelmingly white/old audience. http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/04/02/rat...)

2. Given the above in the U.S., is it any wonder radical Islam succeeds in less affluent, less educated areas of the world--where there's very little exposure to outside ideas. And there's certainly very little opportunity for social/intellectual/economic mobility.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#45

Post by TeMPOraL »

rdancer wrote: post #44
johngalt wrote: post #36

Now we all assume that this perfectly explains the people we disagree with. They are victims of conformity and group think. Thankfully we have reasoned opinions based in fact.

It is a cloistered mind that cannot make that leap.

Cloistered by the filter bubbles. Though Twain's essay suggests it's not a new phenomenon. People tend to group together with those who believe similar things, each confirming preconceptions of the others. From inside of such a group it always looks like everyone else are sheeple that need to wake up.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#47

Post by rdancer »

wrecktangle wrote: post #9

And it readily brings the famous Nazareth's evangelist to mind- Jesus Christ. Considering the 6 stages of his blasphemy trials between Religious and Roman courtrooms (especially, the burdened denial of right and wrong between Herod and Pilate). And contrasting that unfortunate crisis of conscience greeted by the reported mob justice with how many billion people today follow a religion borne of Christ's personality, i…

I like how on an article about crowd conformity and how certain thoughts may come to be frowned upon, your comment gets downvoted because it's Christian.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#48

Post by alan-crowe »

johngalt wrote: post #36

Now we all assume that this perfectly explains the people we disagree with. They are victims of conformity and group think. Thankfully we have reasoned opinions based in fact.

this "ten minute" philosophy video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js8E6C3ZnJ0 about "hegemony" makes a very similar point to Mark Twain, about how we fail to notice that the origins of our opinions and behavior are lost in the mists of mistiness.

The superficial aspects of how the point is expressed are very different and probably appeal to a disjoint audience. Every tribe has its own way realizing that the others are the victims of conformity and group think.

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#49

Post by narag »

kcorbitt wrote: post #2

I agree with this sentiment in general, especially that our own feeling of self-worth can be determined to a fair degree by the opinions of people we surround ourselves with, and that this drives conformity. However, I'd add an important corollary, and one that is perhaps a bit less cynical :). Even if it's mostly true that you can only feel fulfilled when your actions and opinions are approved by your peers, you sti…

It doesn't seem that Twain thinks it's impossible to see through your interests. He also says to have "studied" some question, that suggest he believes it could be considered rationally.

Both the preacher and Twain's philosophy are very independent thinking themselves.

So it's a matter of numbers. A huge proportion of society is easily manipulated by showing them a "manufactured consensus." (Chomsky dixit)

Re: “Corn-Pone Opinions” by Mark Twain (1901)

#50

Post by rdancer »

Bulkington wrote: post #43
kcorbitt wrote: post #2

I agree with this sentiment in general, especially that our own feeling of self-worth can be determined to a fair degree by the opinions of people we surround ourselves with, and that this drives conformity. However, I'd add an important corollary, and one that is perhaps a bit less cynical :). Even if it's mostly true that you can only feel fulfilled when your actions and opinions are approved by your peers, you sti…

Allow me to inject a cynical slant to your hopeful suggestion that people 'today more than ever' can chose their peers. People with a certain education supported by an infrastructure (personal and technological) that allows for choice have this flexibility, but those without see only the threat of 'the other,' not an opportunity to rethink fundamental principles. Worse, political leaders continue to exploit ignorance…

Protestant conservatives support Republican corporatist policy for the same reason urban hipsters support Democrat corporatist policy: because the vote tallying rules strongly favour a two-party system, and the parties they respectively support at least pretend to care about them, while the majority of the Nation sees them as a laughing stock. It speaks to their moral fibre that they are willing to put up with economic disadvantages to prop up policies that they care about.

Suggesting people are somehow foolish because they put ideas before take-home is a weak argument. I'm sure you have a point, but maybe you could come up with better examples.

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