Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

computerworld.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 156 posts

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#121

Post by secondtimeuse »

ashwinaj wrote: post #118
secondtimeuse wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that Jews were actually forbidden to enter and as a result millions died. Or that as early as 1965 when immigration and nationality act was enacted lifting country based caps to certain extent. Several US Congressman reassurred the public that the country won't be overrun by "dirty hindoos" (No kidding) if you are naive enough to thing that the current immigration and H1B logjam is not result of those…

I am fully aware of these historical facts and I'm also aware of racist people (I used to live in Texas for 7 years). But how are these related to a US govt. issued legal immigrant visa i.e. H1B? Did you arrive in the US in a clunky boat fearing for your life and running away from a despot on an H1B? Please don't compare the challenges of H1B workers to events in which people were actually murdered or lived in fear o…

I did not arrive fearing for my life but so did not the guy from Germany or Singapore. Why should birthplace of a person be allowed as a criteria for discrimination.

Are you serious, you never heard of families under strain because 6 years into their Green Card application they had to suddenly leave, while at the same time other countries citizen could get a job. Or where someone on OPT couldn't leave to visit their dying parents since his attorney warned him that he might not be given entry. Not everyone is born with silverspoon. Or families torn apart. All that means nothing?

Your extensive use of "I" indicates general inability to empathize. with such a narcissistic frame of reference no doubt everything is "fake" according to you.

Asking for just, fair and equal treatment regardless of the nationality and place of birth is not being a "fake victim". It's a cause worth fighting for.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#122

Post by madengr »

seanxh wrote: post #78

I optimistic about such issue. I will say software is good occupation while everything is blooming, but you can be more secure during the down time if you are an EE. Furthermore, you can train yourself to be a good software developer if you next to a computer and have internet access(of course you need dedication), but you cannot be a good EE without knowing how to operate a very expensive equipment(i.e PNA, MOCVD, e…

Sheesh, I have a PNA in my basement lab. My wife can run all sorts of PVD/CVD vacuum processes, dicing, grinding, bonding, etc. We seem both stuck in dead end EE jobs.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#123

Post by nine_k »

fpgeek wrote: post #119
henrikm85 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched jobs on H1B recently and I don't see what you think the leash is. The process takes about two weeks and as far as I can tell there is no realistic risk of losing the H1B even if your (about to be) former employer fires you and the new company butchers the transfer [1]. As a side-note, me changing jobs fairly dramatically increased my salary. I could presumably (I did not negotiate with old employer but a c…

My understanding is that the real leash is the H1B to green card process. The process is slow and complicated and switching companies often requires you to start over (not to mention opening doors for other problems).

It's also rather expensive, and the sponsoring company paying (most of) the fees really helps.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#124

Post by abalashov »

BurningFrog wrote: post #104
learc83 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still an element of captivity above what a citizen or resident faces--staying in country is contingent on quickly finding another employer who will sponsor you. If a native employee is fired, they lose their job and probably go on unemployment while the look for another one. If an H-1B employee is fired, they get deported. Employers know this, and they treat H-1B employees accordingly.

> If an H-1B employee is fired, they get deported. That was definitely not true during my time on H1B. The feds could legally deport you, but they never bothered to.

Well, yes, but then you're just benefitting from lax de facto enforcement, not any de jure certainty. And anything de facto which operates below the standard demanded by de jure can change at a moment's notice, subject to politics, audits, or someone waking up on the wrong side of the bed.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#125

Post by protomyth »

ashwinaj wrote: post #118
secondtimeuse wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that Jews were actually forbidden to enter and as a result millions died. Or that as early as 1965 when immigration and nationality act was enacted lifting country based caps to certain extent. Several US Congressman reassurred the public that the country won't be overrun by "dirty hindoos" (No kidding) if you are naive enough to thing that the current immigration and H1B logjam is not result of those…

I am fully aware of these historical facts and I'm also aware of racist people (I used to live in Texas for 7 years). But how are these related to a US govt. issued legal immigrant visa i.e. H1B? Did you arrive in the US in a clunky boat fearing for your life and running away from a despot on an H1B? Please don't compare the challenges of H1B workers to events in which people were actually murdered or lived in fear o…

> I am fully aware of these historical facts and I'm also aware of racist people (I used to live in Texas for 7 years).

It comments like these that make me believe you like to stereotype people. That does not help your arguments. The most absolute racist people I have ever met were from Washington DC and it would be wrong to assume everyone there was a racist.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#126

Post by x0x0 »

ashwinaj wrote: post #113
x0x0 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iow, you continue to assert without proof that h1b immigration doesn't constrain or reduce wages.

See my EDIT above. I am no economist to parse all this information, but in my experience and people I know the wage argument for "genuine" H1B applicants is hyperbole.

So you claim, absent any supporting data, that adding 500k skilled employees (85k times 6 years), not even including other types of visas doesn't affect labor markets? That requires either solid proof or, well, motivated reasoning.

3.6m software engineers in the US; if even half of h1b holders are devs that's a sizeable increase. Even under modest demand elasticity assumptions you can back of napkin estimate a large influence

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2483690/it-careers/indi...

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#127

Post by ashwinaj »

secondtimeuse wrote: post #121
ashwinaj wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fully aware of these historical facts and I'm also aware of racist people (I used to live in Texas for 7 years). But how are these related to a US govt. issued legal immigrant visa i.e. H1B? Did you arrive in the US in a clunky boat fearing for your life and running away from a despot on an H1B? Please don't compare the challenges of H1B workers to events in which people were actually murdered or lived in fear o…

I did not arrive fearing for my life but so did not the guy from Germany or Singapore. Why should birthplace of a person be allowed as a criteria for discrimination. Are you serious, you never heard of families under strain because 6 years into their Green Card application they had to suddenly leave, while at the same time other countries citizen could get a job. Or where someone on OPT couldn't leave to visit their…

Haha..I love debating with you. Your hyperbole gets even better.

>"Why should birthplace of a person be allowed as a criteria for discrimination."

Because that is the law of the land and it is fair since the number of green cards are allotted EQUALLY to all countries [1]. We just happen to be from a country where there are more number of applicants than green cards available. If it were discriminatory, why did the EB priority dates of China move up multiple years? It's because the EB applications from Chinese nationals have dropped considerably, not because the US is suddenly schmoozing to Chinese nationals.

> "you never heard of families under strain because 6 years into their Green Card application they had to suddenly leave"

Life events happen (do you expect your life to be smooth sailing?) and you have to take decisions based on it. Let me tell you something, H1B is way way more permissive than work visas in most of Europe and Middle East. Chew on that for a minute.

> "Or where someone on OPT couldn't leave to visit their dying parents"

This cannot be a regular occurrence. Again, this is hyperbole.

> "Or families torn apart. All that means nothing?"

Were you kidnapped from your family and brought to the US in a shipping container with 100's of other people? All of us "left our families" and came here with our own FREE WILL. No one brought you here against your free will.

I use "I" because these are my opinions and I don't speak for anyone else. I definitely do not empathize with hyperbole, I can tell you that :)

Please read the link below before passing judgments on hearsay.

[1] http://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/country-limit

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#128

Post by prostoalex »

staticint wrote: post #74
ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

Also, H1B workers get paid the same as local workers... So if you buy the allegation that wages are being depressed by H1B workers, why don't you take a peek at the bulletin board of your break room The idea usually is that the presence of an H1B means that someone local does not exist to do the job, which means that a company would otherwise have to pay more than the going rate to poach someone else from another com…

> The idea usually is that the presence of an H1B means that someone local does not exist to do the job

The way it works with large bodyshops is, let's say, HP runs a software team of 20 paying everybody $100k. Infosys or other "consulting" company then shows up and offers to run the same project at the cost of $1.6 mil. Immense savings, so HP signs the deal.

Infosys then runs the H1 posting advertising 20 position paying $45,000 each. Their US operations are headquartered somewhere in NJ, so it passes the US Department of Labor snuff test of adequate standard wage. It's also understood that a consulting company might have its consultants deployed on premises, all depends on the client.

As very few locals apply for $45k jobs in NJ, Infosys staffs the project with its own H1 applicants who are then immediately to start work at client's location in Cupertino or Seattle.

* Usage of names like HP, Infosys and New Jersey is illustrative, not factual. It just helps to understand how margins are made in bodyshop industry.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#129

Post by ashwinaj »

ashwinaj wrote: post #113
x0x0 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iow, you continue to assert without proof that h1b immigration doesn't constrain or reduce wages.

See my EDIT above. I am no economist to parse all this information, but in my experience and people I know the wage argument for "genuine" H1B applicants is hyperbole.

Replying to x0x0:

Wait a minute, I re-read my initial statement, this is what I said:

> "I am replying to those who make claims that H1B workers are being paid below market rate, hence driving down salaries."

I mention specifically about H1B workers are not being paid below market rate. So the salaries of H1B workers is not the cause of the driving down the wages.

To your argument, will an abundant supply of labor cause the salaries to go down or stagnate? Yes.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#130

Post by ashwinaj »

protomyth wrote: post #125
ashwinaj wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fully aware of these historical facts and I'm also aware of racist people (I used to live in Texas for 7 years). But how are these related to a US govt. issued legal immigrant visa i.e. H1B? Did you arrive in the US in a clunky boat fearing for your life and running away from a despot on an H1B? Please don't compare the challenges of H1B workers to events in which people were actually murdered or lived in fear o…

> I am fully aware of these historical facts and I'm also aware of racist people (I used to live in Texas for 7 years). It comments like these that make me believe you like to stereotype people. That does not help your arguments. The most absolute racist people I have ever met were from Washington DC and it would be wrong to assume everyone there was a racist.

> "It comments like these that make me believe you like to stereotype people."

And you don't? If you were in a dark alley and saw a guy in a hoodie what would you think? Exactly, it's called stereotyping :)

You can twist the meaning and nitpick my comment all you want. Of course I don't mean all people, does everything need to be spelled out explicitly?

Post reply on HN