U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#71

Post by 1971genocide » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 1:47 AM UTC

I find it funny that we leave it to the economist to decide the fate of research.

I remember in uni I found EE topics much harder and boring then Software topics. Anything below C is a big nope. Verilog, VLSI, FPGA, anything to do with embedded IoT.

Yeah america wont survive if kids today stop valuing EE topic just due to some misguided economical models/interpretation.

The rockets that will land on mars wont be designed solely by software guys - it will require a lot of EE innovations - if america gives up then some other country will take its place.

Reminds of the movie Interstellar.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#72

Post by ashwinaj » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 1:48 AM UTC

latj wrote: post #65

ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

I'm not who you are addressing exactly, but it is not "bigoted" to make the claim that bringing more workers into a workforce will drive salaries down.

I am replying to those who make claims that H1B workers are being paid below market rate, hence driving down salaries. There is a minimum wage requirement as I mentioned which is approved by the state department of labor. Again, these "driving down wages" doesn't hold water when the H1B salaries are public information.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#73

Post by coliveira » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 1:52 AM UTC

zeroxfe wrote: post #38

coliveira wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these things could be easily overcome with better training. The way I see it, the software industry in the US invests close to nothing in training and expects to receive "talented" developers by just selecting a small proportion from a large pool of candidates. This is a lazy and irresponsible way to create a workforce. The time and effort they spend in interviewing could be very well spent on teaching best pr…

> All of these things could be easily overcome with better training. I think 1, 2, and 4, requires lots of real world experience in addition to training. > The time and effort they spend in interviewing could be very well spent on teaching best practices to new employees Assuming that just teaching best practices is all that is required, which I strongly disagree with, a lot of companies (especially startups) don't h…

Your arguments clearly contradict each other:

"The marketplace is fiercely competitive, and they typically need people on the ground right away."

" The time it takes for a new hire at Google to get productive is usually about 6 months to a year."

It cannot be both ways as you please. Either these companies are investing in training or not. If they are, then things like requirements gathering, creating specs, and providing tests should not be something difficult to do. This is a very important part of the job, but is not a part that requires super-intelligence.

Everything points to the fact that these companies do not invest in training and are just trying to select a small number of people out of a large pool.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#74

Post by staticint » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 1:56 AM UTC

ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

Also, H1B workers get paid the same as local workers... So if you buy the allegation that wages are being depressed by H1B workers, why don't you take a peek at the bulletin board of your break room

The idea usually is that the presence of an H1B means that someone local does not exist to do the job, which means that a company would otherwise have to pay more than the going rate to poach someone else from another company. Then the company losing the employee has to pay more to poach from somewhere else, and so on, until eventually everyone who is suitable for such a position is making more.

The fact that H1Bs are paid what the locals are paid is exactly the issue people have when they talk about wage suppression. It is in much the same vein as when Apple/Google/et al. agreed to not steal each others employees. It is not like those employees were exactly hurting for compensation, but they theoretically could have made more without that treaty between companies.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#75

Post by madengr » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 1:59 AM UTC

I have been an EE for 20 years. I think one of the things driving it is the increase in productivity. I can do a lot more with my RF/Microwave design software than 20 years ago, so I am now probably doing the work of two people.

There is also consolidation with complexity. How many 5G chipsets do you need when 95% of the phone market is held by two manufacturers? Hardware is expensive to develop and takes time. Investors/companies want cheap and fast, and are unwilling to fund R&D.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#76

Post by jleader » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 2:02 AM UTC

ashwinaj wrote: post #69

nickbauman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still believe it's a wage suppression strategy. Here's why: I used to work for a major multinational based in Europe, but I lived here in the US. Many of the people I worked with were not US citizens, but lived and worked here on an E-1 (the European version of the H-1b Visa). They were essentially captive workers who were at the mercy of the whims of management; management that was largely absent from the day-to-d…

> "who were at the mercy of the whims of management" With H1B you are not tied to the same employer, you are free to leave the sponsoring employer and go elsewhere. I don't know about the E-1 visa. Again, if you feel they were being paid below the market rate, you can check up the bulletin board to make sure.

My understanding (from H1B coworkers and HR managers in previous jobs) was that the H1B is transferable to another company IF the other company agrees to sponsor it, and there's a fair amount of paperwork, hassle, and uncertainty to effect the transfer. That has to translate into at least a small salary discrepancy between H1B holders and permanent-resident employees.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#77

Post by tn13 » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 2:03 AM UTC

ashwinaj wrote: post #51

There are two kinds of H1B petitions: 1. Genuine candidates: I'm going to quote the extreme, people like Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Vinod Khosla etc. came to the US on H1B and there are a lot of other "superstars" on H1B or naturalized citizens. More practically, there are thousands of other talented people from all countries who work on H1B. So the argument that H1B should be done away with is absurd, unless the…

I have a simple solution. Let H1Bs enter based on the salary their employee is paying them than anything else. Forget about degree, job description etc. Also this is how the bidding system would work.

1. Let salaries be classified in tiers. 100K 110K 120K etc. These tiers are classified and published only after an year. 2. Let companies bid for every employee based on how valuable the employee is. say a company bids for X at $120K p.a. 2. Sort the bids in descending level. Each company will then have to pay their employee a salary that is at least as much as the lowest salary in that tier.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#78

Post by seanxh » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 2:04 AM UTC

I optimistic about such issue. I will say software is good occupation while everything is blooming, but you can be more secure during the down time if you are an EE. Furthermore, you can train yourself to be a good software developer if you next to a computer and have internet access(of course you need dedication), but you cannot be a good EE without knowing how to operate a very expensive equipment(i.e PNA, MOCVD, etc). Disclaimer: I am a software developer with a background in EE

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#79

Post by tn13 » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 2:05 AM UTC

ashwinaj wrote: post #69

nickbauman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still believe it's a wage suppression strategy. Here's why: I used to work for a major multinational based in Europe, but I lived here in the US. Many of the people I worked with were not US citizens, but lived and worked here on an E-1 (the European version of the H-1b Visa). They were essentially captive workers who were at the mercy of the whims of management; management that was largely absent from the day-to-d…

> "who were at the mercy of the whims of management" With H1B you are not tied to the same employer, you are free to leave the sponsoring employer and go elsewhere. I don't know about the E-1 visa. Again, if you feel they were being paid below the market rate, you can check up the bulletin board to make sure.

There are lot of illegal things that happen with H1B that prevent the above. For example H4 spouse can not work but then some company agrees to sponsor H1B under the condition that no payslips will be given and hence you can not transfer the visa. This is same as slavery except that the choice otherwise is to be on H4 which does not let you earn a penny but be a burden.

Re: U.S. predicts zero job growth for electrical engineers

#80

Post by tn13 » Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 2:10 AM UTC

IT/CS industry is the major consumer of H1B visas. IT/CS is also the industry that relies mostly on outsourcing. Guess how healthy this industry is, guess which computer major pays the most salary in USA today and so on and also the consumers are happiest with the laptops, iphones, apps and Uber.

Now compare it with the heavily regulated industry of Healthcare. No one likes paying hospital bills in USA, almost everyone works on wafer thin margins and a constant fear of law-suites. Only the doctors and that too only few of them manage to earn a fortune but everyone else is worse off. Far more importantly USA has very inefficient and expensive healthcare system.