Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

linkedin.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 262 posts

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#161

Post by test001only »

wildmusings wrote: post #149
chrischen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is not doing this for altruistic reasons.

Good. Look at all of the good all of the altruistic foreign aid has done for the poor nations of the world. In case you aren't aware, it hasn't done much good at all, and often does a lot of harm by perpetuating corruption and undermining local markets. Capitalism is the most successful anti-poverty program in history the world. Facebook has found a way to make money by providing connectivity to a billion people. Wha…

Except for the fact that Facebook is not providing any connectivity here. It is simply access to the walled garden that is Facebook. It is not internet in any form, not even the subset.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#162

Post by [deleted] »

wildmusings wrote: post #149
chrischen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is not doing this for altruistic reasons.

Good. Look at all of the good all of the altruistic foreign aid has done for the poor nations of the world. In case you aren't aware, it hasn't done much good at all, and often does a lot of harm by perpetuating corruption and undermining local markets. Capitalism is the most successful anti-poverty program in history the world. Facebook has found a way to make money by providing connectivity to a billion people. Wha…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#163

Post by cmurf »

If I understand this right, it means poor people don't actually get the Internet. They get Facebook. Ergo it's a regression back to pre-Internet "Prodigy" and "Compuserve" and "AOL" only days, for poor people. And then they get piles of ads in their face. It's not really the Internet. So is that better than nothing? I think that's up to the users to decide rather than people who have the real Internet.

But I also think it's misleading to refer to this as "digital equality" or that Facebook and friends constitutes "essential internet services." The only essential Internet service is the fucking connection to the unabridged Internet. So call it what it actually is. Don't exaggerate (lie).

EDIT: I don't use Facebook, at all. I have tons of friends who don't use it, at all. So how "essential" is it? I'm completely OK with them giving free Facebook + only whatever else they want, but it's b.s. to call this essential or basic. It's not even really free if people are getting ad bombed to pay for it.. So yeah, let people have whatever this is, it's fine, but don't lie/mislead about what it is.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#164

Post by mkagenius »

quadrangle wrote: post #73
mkagenius wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India is already cheap enough to be near the cost of a phone Indians are very frugal, if they bought the phone, then that's the end of it. They won't even spend a single penny to buy the Internet.. Only way is to give it for free and let them experience the usefulness and long term effect. How to give for free? That's up for debate.

How about slow or even limited amount of data but full internet? Result of that would be people making websites that use minimal data. Result of FB-only internet is everyone putting everything on FB, effectively shutting out anyone not on FB and giving insane power to FB.

it would be better but then the question comes to sponsership, who would sponser such a thing?

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#165

Post by wildmusings »

test001only wrote: post #161
wildmusings wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. Look at all of the good all of the altruistic foreign aid has done for the poor nations of the world. In case you aren't aware, it hasn't done much good at all, and often does a lot of harm by perpetuating corruption and undermining local markets. Capitalism is the most successful anti-poverty program in history the world. Facebook has found a way to make money by providing connectivity to a billion people. Wha…

Except for the fact that Facebook is not providing any connectivity here. It is simply access to the walled garden that is Facebook. It is not internet in any form, not even the subset.

You are mistaken. Facebook will be one of the services offered on this platform, but anyone can apply to have their web service included. But even if it were just Facebook, that's very much connectivity. Users would be able to message people across the world, communicate with companies and government, share their views, comment on others views, etc. It's a hell of a lot more connectivity than telegrams, phones, and television ever were.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#166

Post by mahranch »

jeevand wrote: post #130
mahranch wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All we are asking our Govt. is to adopt same Net Neutrality standards that exist in US and other EU countries. I understand that, and support it 100%. I am 100% pro-net neutrality. > Just because we are open, unlike China, doesn't mean you can play unfair. My issue is that India will play unfair. They have a history of it. Say what you will about all the people who have their own anecdotal bad experiences with Indi…

> India has a long history of reneging on deals. Once a deal is struck with most nations, that's it. Done deal. With India, they don't care - they'll do whatever is convenient for them. Most nations will do whatever is convenient for them. ex: If you are from US, GOP says they will cancel the Iran nuclear deal > Hell, even Russia and China won't back out of deals once struck. They'll piss and moan if it turns out the…

> Most nations will do whatever is convenient for them.

Most nations do not renege on trade agreements made with other nations.

> GOP says they will cancel the Iran nuclear deal

"Says" and "do" are two different things, they won't because it's unprecedented. The U.S doesn't renege on massive trade agreements, or with the WTO.

> Not tue, ex: Hong Kong democracy

Ignoring the fact that I have no idea what you mean by this, I do know that it is not a trade agreement, nor is it a financial agreement with another nation. You're comparing apples and oranges.

> You just described all the other countries apart from developed countries

That was kind of my point?

> Every country does it.

Apples and oranges - no "big" country reneges on trade agreements, or reneges on deals with the WTO that were years in the making. Those things are completely unprecedented. I think you, and those who agree with you, fail to grasp the scope and what those deals meant. They literally ripped off the U.S. The U.S delivered on its end, then when it was time for India to live up to its end of the bargain, they ran off. Literally. (See here: http://www.ictsd.org/bridges-news/biores/news/us-launches-ne...)

> If investors don't invest in India or China due to inherent risks then they might loose out in the long run

Speculation. China's economy is slowing down and India's is pretty stagnant (relatively speaking). Other than having a lot of people (over a billion each), neither country has much going for it. There is no innovation coming out of either country. Look up any "most innovative countries" on google and see if you can find China or India among them. Those countries investors may risk losing out on - countries like South Korea.

> from developed world will not be great

Just having a lot of people (big population) doesn't mean there is money to be made. Especially when the government in question (China, for example) is about as authoritative as it gets. They can literally take your business away from you and kick you out of the country and there wouldn't be a damn thing you could do about it. That's not opportunity, that's a minefield. And it's why foreign investors are staying away anb/or pulling their funds out.

Edit: I just noticed in a prior comment you said you were from India, a farming village. Don't you think you're a little biased on the matter?

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#167

Post by shrikrishna »

petke wrote: post #142
quadrangle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Facebook is rich enough and powerful enough to MAKE the choice be full-internet or nothing. They and other powerful entities can provide full internet. It is THEIR fault that the choice is FaceBook or nothing because they want that to be the choice. FaceBook is not some savior here. The ramifications of pushing everyone to FB are also devastating because they would force everyone to get locked in to using F…

I think you are not hearing the point. Given that Facebook is a greedy company (and not a charity), its not going to give away free full internet. So our choice is about allowing, or not allowing, a billion poor people free Facebook access. Its easy for us to say this is no good and it should be stopped because Facebook access is not as good as the full internet. But who are we to deny poor people what little they ca…

This is not about the poor (although Facebook would have you believe so). It is about who controls data. I am saying this as someone who has lived in a village before. If a walled garden is given free entry, people will never get out of it, and I am stating this from experience. A lot of companies (including startups) will never be able to ever reach 1 billion people. Imagine an Apple Store, but for the whole of internet. That is what this will end with.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#168

Post by throwawaykf05 »

quadrangle wrote: post #72
petke wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Facebook is doing this for their own greedy reasons, but they make one very good point: "Banning free basics on the basis of net neutrality [...] means 1 billion people cant afford to access any services." It isn't a choice between having facebook, or having the full internet. Its a choice between having facebook, or having no internet at all. Surely no internet at all, is the worst option. Nobody else is goi…

Nonsense. Facebook is rich enough and powerful enough to MAKE the choice be full-internet or nothing. They and other powerful entities can provide full internet. It is THEIR fault that the choice is FaceBook or nothing because they want that to be the choice. FaceBook is not some savior here. The ramifications of pushing everyone to FB are also devastating because they would force everyone to get locked in to using F…

What if I claim you are rich enough to donate to charities of not only your choice, but my choice as well. Will you donate to arbitrary charities that arbitrary people ask you to? Just because you have money does not mean we get to tell you what to do with it.

>Even a delay in getting people online is better for the people's interests than locking them into a shitty closed system for the long-term.

That's because you have the luxury of having Internet access and are not affected by lack of it. Why don't you let those without any access at all get some access and let them decide whether they want to be locked in or not? Or are you saying you know what they want better then they do?

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#169

Post by prostoalex »

discardorama wrote: post #41
sremani wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize if I came across condescending, I was try to set contrast here. For the activists its an intellectual/idealogical crusade, and for the poor people it is a way of life thing. On other note, there are desperate patients and families who are willing to risk their health and are trying hard to get access to drugs that are in clinical trails even in OECD countries.

You should really think before spouting off, and you should honestly admit if you're biased in this instance. I've followed India's cellular revolution with interest, seeing (as I mentioned earlier) I grew up when India had almost no phones. My dad, due to his work, always had a phone; and I, being the youngest, was the errand-boy, running to distant houses to tell people that there was a phone call for them, and tha…

The Airtel/Docomo analogy has been played out in the US. ATT Wireless calls to other ATT Wireless subscribers are considered mobile-to-mobile and don't count towards the minutes limit. Same for the rest of the major carriers, so families who chat a lot frequently pick carriers strategically (the balkanization you're describing).

Overall, it has not caused any major disasters.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#170

Post by petke »

leereeves wrote: post #151
petke wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are not hearing the point. Given that Facebook is a greedy company (and not a charity), its not going to give away free full internet. So our choice is about allowing, or not allowing, a billion poor people free Facebook access. Its easy for us to say this is no good and it should be stopped because Facebook access is not as good as the full internet. But who are we to deny poor people what little they ca…

It won't be a billion poor people getting free Facebook access. Indians who can afford smartphones and electricity, but not a basic data plan (how many?), will be getting Facebook access at the price of being subjected to advertising, tracking, etc.

People are crafty. You dont have to have electricity at home to charge your phone. Its enough there is one power source in the village. (There was a news story about a boy that built a windmill, and the villagers paid him a bit to charge their phones). You dont even need your own phone. You can share or rent one by the minute.

Second hand smartphones are getting pretty cheap. 2.8 billion people live on less than 2 dollars a day. A second hand smart phone might go for 20 dollars. So its a few weeks worth of savings.

Imagine all those people getting on Facebook. They will find a way to use it for what they need.

Post reply on HN