Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#71

Post by sa1 » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:02 PM UTC

petke wrote: post #70

erbdex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a screenshot of what's the permanent top-notification if you're an Indian and on Facebook- http://imgur.com/uykRY8G

I agree Facebook is doing this for their own greedy reasons, but they make one very good point: "Banning free basics on the basis of net neutrality [...] means 1 billion people cant afford to access any services." It isn't a choice between having facebook, or having the full internet. Its a choice between having facebook, or having no internet at all. Surely no internet at all, is the worst option. Nobody else is goi…

One issue is that it won't be possible to have regulation that doesn't prevent Free Basics, but prevents other abuses of not having net neutrality.

Such as having lots of subsets of the internet being offered for free or cheap, and the real internet being gradually priced out of the range of most people(citing 'infrastructure costs" of course). This can't be prevented as long as there's a loophole for Free Basics in the net neutrality regulation.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#72

Post by quadrangle » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

petke wrote: post #70

erbdex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a screenshot of what's the permanent top-notification if you're an Indian and on Facebook- http://imgur.com/uykRY8G

I agree Facebook is doing this for their own greedy reasons, but they make one very good point: "Banning free basics on the basis of net neutrality [...] means 1 billion people cant afford to access any services." It isn't a choice between having facebook, or having the full internet. Its a choice between having facebook, or having no internet at all. Surely no internet at all, is the worst option. Nobody else is goi…

Nonsense. Facebook is rich enough and powerful enough to MAKE the choice be full-internet or nothing. They and other powerful entities can provide full internet. It is THEIR fault that the choice is FaceBook or nothing because they want that to be the choice. FaceBook is not some savior here. The ramifications of pushing everyone to FB are also devastating because they would force everyone to get locked in to using FB for everything and then the power imbalance will be extremely serious in the long-term. Even a delay in getting people online is better for the people's interests than locking them into a shitty closed system for the long-term.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#73

Post by quadrangle » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:20 PM UTC

mkagenius wrote: post #36

lunula wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either way, it is better than No Access. I see this as a false dilemma. Internet access in India is already cheap enough to be near the cost of a phone over its effective lifetime. To quote the linked post: > Given that data packages cost as little as Rs. 20 a month while phones cost Rs. 2,000 and up, we think their thesis itself is flawed So the group that free basics can help to get online are those for whom the…

> India is already cheap enough to be near the cost of a phone Indians are very frugal, if they bought the phone, then that's the end of it. They won't even spend a single penny to buy the Internet.. Only way is to give it for free and let them experience the usefulness and long term effect. How to give for free? That's up for debate.

How about slow or even limited amount of data but full internet? Result of that would be people making websites that use minimal data. Result of FB-only internet is everyone putting everything on FB, effectively shutting out anyone not on FB and giving insane power to FB.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#74

Post by manash » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

Why not let "our less fortunate brothers" decided what they want. If they don't want free internet, then its their choice. How insane is it to let the TRAI regulate the internet! Do you not see the internet is the only real means of liberating people? And you want a group of elite people to control this! What happens to the "these airwaves belong to us" argument when the government bans anti-govt web sites or porn websites or any other websites that the current elite don't agree with? Down with intelligentsia!

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#75

Post by mahranch » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

If I was facebook, I'd tread lightly.

India has a long history of reneging on deals. Once a deal is struck with most nations, that's it. Done deal. With India, they don't care - they'll do whatever is convenient for them.

They did just that on a huge WTO deal years in the making (source: http://www.npr.org/2014/08/10/339292735/why-indias-modi-defi...). The also reneged on a solar energy trade agreement with the U.S (source: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Industry/2013/02/07/...).

Hell, even Russia and China won't back out of deals once struck. They'll piss and moan if it turns out they got the short end of the stick, but they'll still honor the deal.

I tell my clients to steer clear of India for this very reason - it's nearly impossible to know when a deal is "solid". There's very little recourse if a business or person reneges on a business deal, or rips you off.

I almost hope facebook wins this little battle; India benefits from facebook pumping a bunch of money into India's infrastructure to build it up, supplying internet to the poor, then India says "Nope, sorry facebook, you gotta go. It was nice having you!". Facebook would get what it deserves. I actually wouldn't be surprised if that happens.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#76

Post by soared » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #19

Okay, if an activist can contemplate a program giving everyone in India who wants it 500MB a month mobile bandwidth, then I have to call out western web app developers for committing a heinous crimes against global Internet access equality. It used to be that I could get by with a 500MB plan on my iPhone, and so long as I avoided video streaming, I'd usually use 300MB. Now I see that my Maps apps alone use that in a…

You're blaming devs because you us 6gb a month? That is a joke. I share 15gb with 6 people in my family and we've never gone over. Obviously you are doing something out of the ordinary.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#77

Post by soared » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:48 PM UTC

propogandist wrote: post #12

mtgx wrote: post #10

Over the next few years, someone should also look into how much of that "philanthropy" money is going into Internet.org from Zuckerberg - mainly because I'd hate for him to get away with most people believing he's giving away his fortune for the good of mankind, when in fact he'd just be propping up Facebook, but with fewer taxes on his money.

there was no mention of philanthropy, it was PR stunt. All Zuckerburg did was move his wealth to a private LLC, it's the degenerate media and press that interpreted it as "philanthropy", probably to get some Likes on their FB post.

Besides his entire letter saying it was being given to charity you mean?

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#78

Post by such_a_casual » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:48 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #63

such_a_casual wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is a pretty shady organization. For years they have used server costs as one of the main reasons (and in the some cases the main reason) why people should donate. But their finance reports paint a very different picture. Their server costs reflect a very small percentage of their overall costs. They ask for way more money than they actually need. More money is spent on "investments" and fundraisers than is…

> Wikipedia is a pretty shady organization. Wikimedia. They do a lot more than just the encyclopædia. > For years they have used server costs as one of the main reasons (and in the some cases the main reason) why people should donate. But their finance reports paint a very different picture. Their server costs reflect a very small percentage of their overall costs. Server costs are not the only thing they need to spe…

So you are going to ignore everything I said to talk about what you want to talk about? cool.

Wikipedia's financial statements are easy to find and they provide them for you: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Financial_reports#2010....

I'll go over my first point, and you can decide whether you want to continue to ignore my actual statements:

1. They use server costs to plea for donations. This is deceptive and dishonest advertising. In certain years, wikipedia abused the public's perception of server costs as their main selling point. Even when server costs are not necessarily their main selling point, they are more often than not the very first cost listed on their advertisements.

http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/11/28/wikipedia_chugging_fullsize...

If you were to poll wikipedia donators, what % of wikipedia's total costs would they think are server costs if they are going by wikipedia's advertisements?

In 2010, wikipedia states they received the following in donations: $14,490,273

They list "internet hosting" costs for that year as: $1,056,703

In 2011, wikipedia's stated they recieved: $23,020,127

with "internet hosting" costs of: $1,799,943

Please stop twisting my words out of love for wikipedia. Wikipedia deceives their users about where their money is actually going and asks for MILLIONS of dollars more than they actually need.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#79

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

petke wrote: post #70

erbdex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a screenshot of what's the permanent top-notification if you're an Indian and on Facebook- http://imgur.com/uykRY8G

I agree Facebook is doing this for their own greedy reasons, but they make one very good point: "Banning free basics on the basis of net neutrality [...] means 1 billion people cant afford to access any services." It isn't a choice between having facebook, or having the full internet. Its a choice between having facebook, or having no internet at all. Surely no internet at all, is the worst option. Nobody else is goi…

Is the lack of Internet truly that bad? India, while woefully poor in many places, is perhaps the most spiritually rich nation I have ever known. For all the stresses of life and distortions of industrialization, let alone internetification, they have far more inner resolve than most of us in the pill-popping West. To say that they have nothing if they reject an inch-wide glimpse of the Internet, provided by a company which is the face of corporate survellience, no less, smacks of the arrogant notion that more is always better. The Buddha found satisfaction by rejecting the material life, after all.

Re: Facebook is misleading Indians with its full-page ads about Free Basics

#80

Post by jarsj » Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 10:02 PM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #75

If I was facebook, I'd tread lightly. India has a long history of reneging on deals. Once a deal is struck with most nations, that's it. Done deal. With India, they don't care - they'll do whatever is convenient for them. They did just that on a huge WTO deal years in the making (source: http://www.npr.org/2014/08/10/339292735/why-indias-modi-defi... ). The also reneged on a solar energy trade agreement with the U.S…

I guess you have no idea what this is really about.

All we are asking our Govt. is to adopt same Net Neutrality standards that exist in US and other EU countries.

Companies like Uber/Amazon are already pumping huge money in India because they need us, not vice-versa. Just because we are open, unlike China, doesn't mean you can play unfair.