Live data from Hacker News

The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

nytimes.com

31–40 of 149 posts

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#31
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

Honestly saying "just look at instate costs" is just as misleading. Restricting access to a quality education / future job options (depending on your field, etc) based on geography is one of the most telling failures of American Federalism. The sooner state schools are re-bundled into a federal program for affordable access to all Americans the better.

It's a natural outcome of federalism. State A invests revenues heavily in a world renowned university. State B invests little in its postsecondary education. It is each states prerogative to decide how much to spend on education- federalism.

Naturally many State B residents will want to attend the world class university in State A. But they didn't pay a dime of taxes to support it. Hence, higher tuition rates for out of staters.

You see it as restricting access to education, but I see it more as reaping the the seed you sow. Each state chooses how much to spend on education, and lives with the results of their choices.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#33
It's quite likely that by the time my 11-year-old hits 18, private universities will cost over $100,000 per year (tuition plus fees, housing, and food plan), and public schools will be $25K [EDITED orig. $50K] (plus or minus, depending on state subsidies and other funding such as corporate donations).

While the university experience is undoubtedly a valuable one for the 18-22 age range, with tremendous intellectual and socialization opportunities during this formative period, I wonder whether it's still going to be the best and only pathway to intellectual and social growth.

With MOOCs and other online learning resources flooding the internet, many free or for moderate fees, the focus now has to be on justifying the classroom experience. Are you still best off in a 300-seat lecture hall, scribbling/typing notes while a grad student or adjunct spews information from the lectern, at an arbitrary time of day that if you somehow miss it, you're out of luck? You can't exactly ask the lecturer to pause while you go to the toilet, or "please rewind 10 seconds, I missed something". Maybe they have videoed the lecture and maybe the videographer remembered to zoom in on the powerpoint screen at the right times.

You hope that meeting all those fellow students will lead to a group learning experience -- "Hey, let's meet at the coffeeshop and go over this stuff together!" That's possibly the best way to learn material, to teach it to your colleagues and have them quiz you as well. But is that not reproducible in the online model, e.g. chatrooms, skype, etc.?

In my opinion, the U.S. government should get out of the business of providing and guaranteeing educational loans. It has resulted in a vast, bloated system of exploitation of the students and the loan system, and we are now facing possibly a trillion dollar bubble that may burst in the next few years if all those freshly minted degrees don't lead to good paying jobs to retire those loans.

Universities in the U.S. must be put on notice that the free ride is over, and they have to get costs under control, stop with the billion dollar student centers and bloated administrative offices, and try to get back to basics of providing lecture halls and white boards and reasonably secure jobs for professors to do what universities ought to focus on: teach.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#34
post #24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Infinite supply of loans. Dept of Ed isn't even allowed to deny a loan to a person. 2. Culture since the Clinton era of "everyone should go to college". Massive cultural stigma for those who don't. 3. Colleges continue to justify costs based on lifetime earnings delta of people with degrees. Sadly, this data is backwards-looking and not indicative of what today's students should expect. The most heinous thing thou…

One argument I've encountered that holds water, at least with regards to being unable to discharge student debt: you can't repossess someone's mind. (Technically you can, but that'd be a messy affair.)

Not yet, anyway.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#35
post #24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Infinite supply of loans. Dept of Ed isn't even allowed to deny a loan to a person. 2. Culture since the Clinton era of "everyone should go to college". Massive cultural stigma for those who don't. 3. Colleges continue to justify costs based on lifetime earnings delta of people with degrees. Sadly, this data is backwards-looking and not indicative of what today's students should expect. The most heinous thing thou…

One argument I've encountered that holds water, at least with regards to being unable to discharge student debt: you can't repossess someone's mind. (Technically you can, but that'd be a messy affair.)

That could be said for any form of unsecured debt.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#36
post #16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many schools require taking said "total package" for the first semester or first year. I know at my university, all incoming freshmen were required to live on campus and purchase a meal plan. For anyone who lives nearby or planned on shopping around, this is an additional cost.

That's a good point. My university did not have this requirement, however I should point out, even if you lived at home, or moved out on your own - you will be spending this money anyway. As-in, it doesn't matter if the university requires you to take this package the first year, since you're spending it no matter what (on living somewhere). It's just a matter of who you give that money to. If you don't want to spend…

Well, no, not exactly. If you're living at home, your parents are paying for your housing. It's money that is already getting spent. If you have to live in the dorms, your parents don't get a break on their mortgage or rent because you moved out. If your parents are helping you out, they now have their own rent to pay, plus a new rent for you, where before they essentially got "your" rent "for free".

Similarly, adding one person to the home grocery bill was not anywhere near as expensive as the meal plan. Most universities run their cafeterias as profit centers. You're paying restaurant prices. Cheap restaurant prices, typically, but still more than cooking at home.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#37
What makes all the difference in the world now compared to the jaw-dropping prices in '81 is we have alternative education options. There were virtually no other paths to career success 30 years ago... heck... 15 years ago! A traditional path towards a degree was the only way to assure a positive career outlook.

I don't think MOOCs are the panacea, but all types of learning resources (books, classes, organizations, events, people) are all more accessible. The entrepreneurial approach to learning.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably forgot taxes in that cost (that you will pay for the rest of your life as a high earner) but, that said, that is a great model: the country makes an investment in you, you prove you are serious about it (the $3000 a year), and in return, the country gets a higher wage earner (and more taxes) to pay for the next generation.

No, I didn't. That was the total tuition fee including taxes. Obviously that didn't include any sort of college accommodation or meal plan - as I lived at reasonable distance from the campus. It was just standard "classes & exams". That said, because tuition and taxes are proportional to family income, I was in the highest and most expensive tuition fee. Most of the students in the campus would roughly pay half of it…

What I'm talking about is that most European countries have a higher overall income tax rate than the US. Some of this goes to pay for your education, so 3000 is not the total you are paying for it, you will keep paying for it over your lifetime in taxes.

Again, I think this is a great idea. But that said, there is no free lunch in this world.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#39
I'm still waiting for a dramatic disruption of the college/post-secondary industry. I hope it comes really soon, but I'm starting to doubt if it'll come within the next 5 years. I think it's going to take lots of people to disrupt education especially since the government will get involve.

I'm starting to feel that some courses in college/university isn't worth that much money. Like a 50,000 degree that has lectures and materials freely available online? Seriously? Furthermore, some professors are amazing at research, but has no business in teaching.

This looks like a massive waste. It's a huge problem and there are big opportunities in this area.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#40
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. My university did not have this requirement, however I should point out, even if you lived at home, or moved out on your own - you will be spending this money anyway. As-in, it doesn't matter if the university requires you to take this package the first year, since you're spending it no matter what (on living somewhere). It's just a matter of who you give that money to. If you don't want to spend…

Yes, but a dining plan can be significantly more costly than buying food at a grocery store. When MIT tried to require that all students get on a dining plan, there were protests from the less-expensive dorms on the east side.

http://dining.mit.edu/meal-plans/options Their current plans are still $100 to $150 a week for 30 weeks. Thats about three times what jusdicious grocery shopping could get you. Same ratio as when I attended decades ago.
Post reply on HN