The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981) • Hacker News Board

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#11

Post by jofer » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:32 PM UTC

jnardiello wrote: post #7

My tuition fee in a top-notch european technical college (automation engineering) was roughly 3000$/year. But yeah, let's keep cargo-culting the US model.

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates.

It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#12

Post by jnardiello » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:33 PM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #9

jnardiello wrote: post #7

My tuition fee in a top-notch european technical college (automation engineering) was roughly 3000$/year. But yeah, let's keep cargo-culting the US model.

You probably forgot taxes in that cost (that you will pay for the rest of your life as a high earner) but, that said, that is a great model: the country makes an investment in you, you prove you are serious about it (the $3000 a year), and in return, the country gets a higher wage earner (and more taxes) to pay for the next generation.

No, I didn't. That was the total tuition fee including taxes. Obviously that didn't include any sort of college accommodation or meal plan - as I lived at reasonable distance from the campus. It was just standard "classes & exams".

That said, because tuition and taxes are proportional to family income, I was in the highest and most expensive tuition fee. Most of the students in the campus would roughly pay half of it - unless they would start to repeat classes and not pass exams (for which you automatically jump to the most expensive yearly fee).

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#13

Post by seibelj » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:33 PM UTC

cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

I went to Boston University for my undergrad degree, one of the most expensive schools in the USA. Current tuition / room / board is $63k, and another $3k is estimated for expenses [1]. If you could lock in these rates, a 4-year degree would be $264k.

But that is assuming a lock-in. Costs increased 3.7% this year [2]. If there was a 3.7% increase every year during your 4 years, you would pay $279k for a 4 year degree. This is a $15k increase over 4 years.

What's even worse, because of the magic of compound interest, only 9 years after you graduate, yearly costs would be $102k per year.

I personally see this as insanity. It will have to self correct itself, because no one can afford those fees.

So how does BU get away with it now? Primarily through allowing any foreigner with the ability to pay in, regardless of their educational merits. BU has a massive amount of Asian, Indian, Eastern European, and Middle Eastern students who pay the full costs. Anecdotally, a man in my freshman dorm was the young scion of a wealthy family from Dubai, worth over $100 million.

US students rarely pay the full tuition, which is why the outrage isn't so large.

[1] http://www.bu.edu/admissions/admitted/tuition-and-fees/

[2] http://www.bu.edu/today/2015/bu-tuition-and-fees-to-increase...

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#14

Post by thesis » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

jnardiello wrote: post #12

outside1234 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably forgot taxes in that cost (that you will pay for the rest of your life as a high earner) but, that said, that is a great model: the country makes an investment in you, you prove you are serious about it (the $3000 a year), and in return, the country gets a higher wage earner (and more taxes) to pay for the next generation.

No, I didn't. That was the total tuition fee including taxes. Obviously that didn't include any sort of college accommodation or meal plan - as I lived at reasonable distance from the campus. It was just standard "classes & exams". That said, because tuition and taxes are proportional to family income, I was in the highest and most expensive tuition fee. Most of the students in the campus would roughly pay half of it…

The person you're replying to mean't taxes you pay on your income after college.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#15

Post by lordCarbonFiber » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

jofer wrote: post #11

jnardiello wrote: post #7

My tuition fee in a top-notch european technical college (automation engineering) was roughly 3000$/year. But yeah, let's keep cargo-culting the US model.

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

Honestly saying "just look at instate costs" is just as misleading. Restricting access to a quality education / future job options (depending on your field, etc) based on geography is one of the most telling failures of American Federalism. The sooner state schools are re-bundled into a federal program for affordable access to all Americans the better.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#16

Post by Alupis » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:43 PM UTC

usea wrote: post #8

Alupis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "total package" typically includes room and board, as well as other normal living expenses (food, transportation, clothing, etc...). You would be spending that same amount even if you did not attend university (anywhere between $20K-$40k per year in living expenses).

Many schools require taking said "total package" for the first semester or first year. I know at my university, all incoming freshmen were required to live on campus and purchase a meal plan. For anyone who lives nearby or planned on shopping around, this is an additional cost.

That's a good point. My university did not have this requirement, however I should point out, even if you lived at home, or moved out on your own - you will be spending this money anyway.

As-in, it doesn't matter if the university requires you to take this package the first year, since you're spending it no matter what (on living somewhere). It's just a matter of who you give that money to.

If you don't want to spend student loans on normal living expenses, one should work while attending university, this way your loans are only for your tuition and related school expenses... not for rent and food.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#17

Post by twoodfin » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

It's important to realize that true out of pocket costs for the median student have not grown nearly as fast as "sticker price" tuition[1].

That being said, easy government loan money and a growing pool of students demanding a much-slower-growing number of slots at "well regarded" private universities has made it easy to keep ramping up the price.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/upshot/how-the-government-...

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#18

Post by zekevermillion » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

Higher Ed in the US has long been a luxury good, where price is no object. Or rather, there is a correlation between price and demand. Or at least, sticker price and demand -- institutions discriminate between customers by offering scholarships and need-based aid to maximize income, and to maintain a high sticker price.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#19

Post by blisterpeanuts » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

crabasa wrote: post #10

cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

1. Infinite supply of loans. Dept of Ed isn't even allowed to deny a loan to a person. 2. Culture since the Clinton era of "everyone should go to college". Massive cultural stigma for those who don't. 3. Colleges continue to justify costs based on lifetime earnings delta of people with degrees. Sadly, this data is backwards-looking and not indicative of what today's students should expect. The most heinous thing thou…

+1 for the role that guaranteed, subsidized student loans play.

University financial counselors are very well versed at helping students obtain the maximum amount of loans, along with an obligatory brochure cautioning them not to over-borrow.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#20

Post by roymurdock » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #13

cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

I went to Boston University for my undergrad degree, one of the most expensive schools in the USA. Current tuition / room / board is $63k, and another $3k is estimated for expenses [1]. If you could lock in these rates, a 4-year degree would be $264k. But that is assuming a lock-in. Costs increased 3.7% this year [2]. If there was a 3.7% increase every year during your 4 years, you would pay $279k for a 4 year degree…

BU class of 2018 is only 22% international [1]. Although it is true that most foreign students are wealthy and pay full tuition, [2] I think you're discrediting how much rich American parents (78% of population) are willing to pay to get their children a good undergrad degree. Would be interested to see stats on how many American students receive aid, and what the average and median aid packages are.

[1] http://www.bu.edu/admissions/about-bu/

[2] http://www.bu.edu/finaid/apply/international/