The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981) • Hacker News Board

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#21

Post by giaour » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #15

jofer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

Honestly saying "just look at instate costs" is just as misleading. Restricting access to a quality education / future job options (depending on your field, etc) based on geography is one of the most telling failures of American Federalism. The sooner state schools are re-bundled into a federal program for affordable access to all Americans the better.

I don't see that happening in our lifetime. What's more likely is an increase in the number of interstate agreements and consortia, where two or more states agree to charge each other's residents in state rates.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#22

Post by Amezarak » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #15

jofer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

Honestly saying "just look at instate costs" is just as misleading. Restricting access to a quality education / future job options (depending on your field, etc) based on geography is one of the most telling failures of American Federalism. The sooner state schools are re-bundled into a federal program for affordable access to all Americans the better.

I'm not aware of major educational problems with in-state schools. I've compared my curriculum at a nobody southern in state school with the CS curriculum at MIT and I don't see any major differences and I don't feel shortchanged.

I'm pretty sure the only your school matters in the real world is at the most elite levels of a few fields and even then its mostly just about hiring people who went to the same school as you and the perception elites must come from the ivy league.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#23

Post by jenshoop » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

crabasa wrote: post #10

cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

1. Infinite supply of loans. Dept of Ed isn't even allowed to deny a loan to a person. 2. Culture since the Clinton era of "everyone should go to college". Massive cultural stigma for those who don't. 3. Colleges continue to justify costs based on lifetime earnings delta of people with degrees. Sadly, this data is backwards-looking and not indicative of what today's students should expect. The most heinous thing thou…

Spot on. There's also been an increasing competitive push between universities to deliver "country club-esque" experiences to students, which further drives up cost. (Separately, let's not forget about the chaos of the educational publishing industry and the insane price points they command for modestly updated editions each year.) But I think items 1 and 2 above -- and a lack of education about what loans are and the value of a higher ed degree to the potential student -- are the true culprits here. There's a cultural expectation that all students will matriculate to college, and many high schools measure their success in terms of college attainment. Meanwhile, there's a lack of counseling/education for students, so few know that they're expected to repay loans and fewer explore the options (college and non-college) in front of them, and counselors would be working at cross-purposes with the secondary institution's goals if they advised against attending college. As demand for higher ed continues to grow, for-profit higher ed institutions continue to spring up to suck up federal loans and lower acceptance standards.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#24

Post by devbug » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

crabasa wrote: post #10

cassieramen wrote: post #5

This article hints at schools inability to justify their ever increasing prices. Why is tuition continuing to rise so much faster than inflation? Is this simple supply and demand? Government backed loans create infinite supply to anyone who wants them? How can not for profit schools justify gauging their students?

1. Infinite supply of loans. Dept of Ed isn't even allowed to deny a loan to a person. 2. Culture since the Clinton era of "everyone should go to college". Massive cultural stigma for those who don't. 3. Colleges continue to justify costs based on lifetime earnings delta of people with degrees. Sadly, this data is backwards-looking and not indicative of what today's students should expect. The most heinous thing thou…

One argument I've encountered that holds water, at least with regards to being unable to discharge student debt: you can't repossess someone's mind. (Technically you can, but that'd be a messy affair.)

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#25

Post by blisterpeanuts » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

usea wrote: post #8

Alupis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "total package" typically includes room and board, as well as other normal living expenses (food, transportation, clothing, etc...). You would be spending that same amount even if you did not attend university (anywhere between $20K-$40k per year in living expenses).

Many schools require taking said "total package" for the first semester or first year. I know at my university, all incoming freshmen were required to live on campus and purchase a meal plan. For anyone who lives nearby or planned on shopping around, this is an additional cost.

Many, if not most, schools exempt local students from that requirement. Georgetown, for example, has a strict requirement for freshman residency, but they exempt students living with parents or guardians within 70 miles of campus.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#26

Post by ewindisch » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

Parents pay more than this per child today for daycare[1].

[1] https://www.care.com/a/how-much-does-child-care-cost-1406091...

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#27

Post by S4M » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:06 PM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #9

jnardiello wrote: post #7

My tuition fee in a top-notch european technical college (automation engineering) was roughly 3000$/year. But yeah, let's keep cargo-culting the US model.

You probably forgot taxes in that cost (that you will pay for the rest of your life as a high earner) but, that said, that is a great model: the country makes an investment in you, you prove you are serious about it (the $3000 a year), and in return, the country gets a higher wage earner (and more taxes) to pay for the next generation.

In France the very elite students get paid during their studies (equivalent to Msc, not PhD). In exchange they are supposed to work as civil servants for some time (not sure all are supposed to do that), but some go work abroad right after their studies so that investment is mostly lost by the French government.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#28

Post by afarrell » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #16

usea wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many schools require taking said "total package" for the first semester or first year. I know at my university, all incoming freshmen were required to live on campus and purchase a meal plan. For anyone who lives nearby or planned on shopping around, this is an additional cost.

That's a good point. My university did not have this requirement, however I should point out, even if you lived at home, or moved out on your own - you will be spending this money anyway. As-in, it doesn't matter if the university requires you to take this package the first year, since you're spending it no matter what (on living somewhere). It's just a matter of who you give that money to. If you don't want to spend…

Yes, but a dining plan can be significantly more costly than buying food at a grocery store. When MIT tried to require that all students get on a dining plan, there were protests from the less-expensive dorms on the east side.

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#29

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #15

jofer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

Honestly saying "just look at instate costs" is just as misleading. Restricting access to a quality education / future job options (depending on your field, etc) based on geography is one of the most telling failures of American Federalism. The sooner state schools are re-bundled into a federal program for affordable access to all Americans the better.

Given that you can become a resident of a state by not being claimed as a dependent by your parents and having an in state address, makes it possible for most students to get the in-state rate if they choose. Typical path seems to be spend a year at a community college which can transfer credits into your chosen university, attend that college until you have filed a tax return with you as your only dependent, transfer to the state school in the fall (or summer sometimes).

Re: The $10,000-a-year college education has arrived (1981)

#30

Post by rileymat2 » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 5:13 PM UTC

jofer wrote: post #11

jnardiello wrote: post #7

My tuition fee in a top-notch european technical college (automation engineering) was roughly 3000$/year. But yeah, let's keep cargo-culting the US model.

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

At a large state school. https://admissions.msu.edu/finances/tuition.asp

13k, for tuition alone.