If everyone in a research group thinks the same way and agrees on everything, why do you need a whole group?
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10747675 and marked it off-topic.
I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
171–180 of 380 posts
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is clearly wrong unless you posthumously redefine all right-wing political violence as being leftist. Though, really, "left" and "right" are useless terms without defining your usage of them beforehand. Rest assured, there are many right-wingers who are all too willing to make the personal political and to stifle dissent. In fact, that's more-or-less a signature distinction of the New Right that emerged around t…
I'm not going to get bogged down in a "no true scotsman" fallacial argument. People define themselves by these terms and the terms are also widely used. If you can't figure them out, that's on you.
It's not a No True Scotsman when there's inherent vagueness.
People define themselves by these terms and the terms are also widely used. If you can't figure them out, that's on you.
Is that so? Because I've heard definitions of "right" as variously economically liberal, economically protectionist, socially conservative, socially liberal (as in classical liberalism), non-interventionist in foreign policy, interventionist in foreign policy, anti-statist, statist and so forth.
In fact, all of these contradictory views have belonged or continue to belong to various movements categorized as "right-wing".
So I'm asking about what you mean. Or perhaps you don't mean anything and are simply looking for an ax to grind.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#173I once sat in on an academic research meeting where the PI of the group stated "If there are any Republicans in the room, leave, you are fired." They felt comfortable enough saying this even though there were obviously people there from outside the group and nothing like that could be kept secret.
So much for tolerance. How about transgendered Republicans? Would they have been welcomed?
Like Bruce Jenner?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/04/27/br...
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't recognise the prejudice against practical skills in my neck of the woods (CS dept in a UK university) but religious colleagues are quietly looked down upon and sometimes mocked. (Not that there are many of them.) I try as hard as I can not to judge such people myself but will admit to finding it hard to take someone seriously who believes in such stuff. Being able or unable to change a tyre doesn't come close…
Mocking or looking down on people is generally a poor practice. However, it should not surprise someone in the sciences if they are passed over for job opportunities based on their religious beliefs. Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job.
> However, it should not surprise someone in the sciences if they are passed over for job opportunities based on their religious beliefs.
In the US, its generally should, since its pretty blatantly illegal in virtually every case.
> Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job.
There may be some specific religious beliefs where that is true for some jobs (in the sciences or otherwise), but, in general, that's not even remotely true.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking as someone who does: Those of us who do are often raised in a very religious place among very religious people, it's a big part of our lives. Rationally, I have no reason to believe in any God. That's why it's called a belief. It's a lot more to do with the culture one grows up with than the belief itself, and anything you learn at such a young age is difficult to shake loose of completely. Personally, I use…
I was brought up amongst and by religious people too, so I don't automatically assume people are stupid for having beliefs. But I'm aware that is really just a rhetorical position on my part, and when faced with someone who claims to be a scientist, living in the west in the 21st century, and who actually believes this stuff (e.g. the afterlife) then it is just difficult to take them seriously. That makes me vulnerab…
People need things to comfort them. Parent's believe in an afterlife is obviously a comforting thought for them. I wouldn't call that being juvenile so much as being human.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Knowing how to change a flat is not "highly useful" knowledge if you have a AAA membership. The reason changing a flat is considered "beneath" knowledge like understanding Socrates ideas is because it takes time and effort to comprehend complex, abstract topics. Whereas changing a tire is an easy skill to learn for any person. In fact, a scholarly person refusing to learn how to change a flat tire is of benefit to so…
The basic idea that you're expressing isn't entirely unreasonable--not everyone should spend the time to become a competent auto mechanic just because. And it's not unreasonable to just take your car in to get the oil changed. However, you're probably getting downvoted because: 1. AAA isn't always there at your beck and call. 2. The mechanics of changing a flat don't exactly take years of training. 3. Some degree of…
I agree on all 3 points, none of which run contrary to what I said. Downvoting without commenting is cowardly, lazy, or both.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mocking or looking down on people is generally a poor practice. However, it should not surprise someone in the sciences if they are passed over for job opportunities based on their religious beliefs. Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job.
> Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job. Sounds like an unsubstantiated belief to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_...
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Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's less a generalization of everyone who has a degree being incapable of performing that task (I'd imagine a lot would be able to figure it out, it's not complicated) and more the idea that knowledge which is highly useful such as that is viewed as being "beneath" knowledge such as a thorough understanding of the writings of Socrates. The catch there is that knowing Socrates isn't getting you off the side of the ro…
I am really amazed that people are choosing to attack how you presented your rant rather than addressing the substance of it.
Are you really? Sincerely. Because these days, that seems to be the mode of "Debate" that is most popular, alas. I feel like anti-intellectualism has taken hold, such that "Debate" at its best is citing some authority (who usually isn't really an authority, eg: a politician taking a scientific position) and much more commonly engages in ad hominem of the form of attempting to discredit people as a form of argument.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're color blind on this one. >Even the worst bible-thumping rednecks I know (many, many cousins of both sides of the family) will agree to disagree and behave in a civil manner in the presence of those with whom they disagree. You've got to be kidding me. You (and I) are from the land of Jim Crow. My high school's prom was segregated until the late 90's. I worry for the safety of anyone openly gay in my ho…
When was the last time a gay in your home town was actually strung up? How about a black man? As a direct contrast, the number of minorities in my little hometown has increased at a startling rate the past 3 years. People mumble and grumble, but none of them would ever consider not hiring one of them because they were black/mexican/democrat. Thank you for perfectly demonstrating my point.
I think you're delusional if you don't think there's incidents of discrimination against minorities or those with non-hetero sexual orientations.
But to give you a very specific example, you may remember this from the news this year:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Walter_Scott
If you're going to be that snarky, at least be right.
> the number of minorities in my little hometown has increased at a startling rate the past 3 years
Sorry we startled you.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
You had someone be rude to you because you know how to fix a car? As you said, that's a far easier skill to learn than say programming. However, I have never encountered such an attitude and have lived on both coasts. I think people greatly appreciate skilled mechanics, tradesmen, etc. all over the country. The best can usually charge a premium. That's no different on the coasts. I doubt this will be a popular opinio…
> Frankly, I think belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application If you apply this fairly, it would exclude a lot of people. For example, I meet a lot of people folks here on HN that believe in "human rights" or "natural rights" that don't arise out of legal documents. But if you cut someone open, you can't find any "natural rights" in there, nor has anyone provided experimental evidenc…
Yup. These same people find these rights somehow engraved in their minds (from education in the civic religion and other socialization) and consider them to be eternal and obvious truths, which were nevertheless somehow not apparent to anyone for approximately two million years of human history, which is full of people murdering, raping, and enslaving without the slightest consideration that it might be violating people's rights.
I don't mean to pick on them, but just to strengthen your point: almost all of us believe in something supernatural (which doesn't make it any more real, of course.) But what really characterizes people who believe in something supernatural is they believe that thing is natural. Devout Christians do, of course, believe that God transcends nature, having created it, but God is for them an entirely 'natural' thing, a perfectly obvious and eternal truth that everybody should just know, you'd think, an inalienable part of the natural world.
This kind of fundamental belief, or axiom, or cognitive bias, or whatever you want to call it, is very difficult for most people to really identify and understand in themselves.