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I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

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Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#161

Post by MaysonL »

donatj wrote: post #137
__44x0 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing new about this. Some people stopped associating with you because they didn't like your opinions, a story as old as humanity itself.

No. The new part is that even people I didn't offend with my sensibilities are not associating with me on an automated basis.

In Bruce Sterling's novel Distraction, there's a bot trawling the net for opponents of a particular politician, and posting the names of the leading ones on a blog, where fans (in the original sense of fanatic followers) of the politician would note them, and they would end up assassinated. The novel seems to be coming a lot truer than I expected when I first read it (1998 or '99).

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#162

Post by brohee »

FussyZeus wrote: post #32
thieving_magpie wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>most of whom can't even swap a tire for a donut without calling AAA. There's a certain irony here I can't dismiss. You write three paragraphs about being victimized by stereotyping Middle America, then end your rant by.... stereotyping everyone on the east coast (or those who sought extended education).

It's less a generalization of everyone who has a degree being incapable of performing that task (I'd imagine a lot would be able to figure it out, it's not complicated) and more the idea that knowledge which is highly useful such as that is viewed as being "beneath" knowledge such as a thorough understanding of the writings of Socrates. The catch there is that knowing Socrates isn't getting you off the side of the ro…

> the writings of Socrates

I see what you did here

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#163

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

daodedickinson wrote: post #87

Ideological homogeneity isn't the starting condition it's the ending condition, the achieved goal. How could you see that homogeneity and then say "this could be an issue only in an incredibly tribal ideological environment" and not realize that's exactly what academia is and has been for a long time? Have you not read your Saul Alinsky? There's a reason his devotee is the top prez nominee (Clinton). Climate conferen…

I'll raise you academic homogeneity with political autarchy.

How influential is the Left - not the Democrats, but the popular Left - on Wall St, in corporate board rooms, in Congress, in the Senate, in the US military, in econ schools, on MBA courses, in US intelligence, in police management, and in foreign policy?

If you want parity of influence, let's see it there first. Because I'm really not seeing anything that looks even slightly left-wing in any of the above - at least not by European ideas of what the Left is.

And we did invent it after all, so we have some idea what it's supposed to look like.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#164

Post by stefantalpalaru »

druddha wrote: post #141
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job. Sounds like an unsubstantiated belief to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_...

It's not a belief. I said "...may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job." Providing a list of Christian scientists does not disprove my statement. Obviously being religious doesn't necessarily mean you will perform at a lower level relative to your peers. But to borrow from Sam Harris, if you met a scientist who openly admitted to believing Elvis is still alive, would you hold the same opinion of them p…

Judging one's work by anything other than the work itself is unscientific.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#165

Post by Spooky23 »

dd36 wrote: post #81
FussyZeus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less a generalization of everyone who has a degree being incapable of performing that task (I'd imagine a lot would be able to figure it out, it's not complicated) and more the idea that knowledge which is highly useful such as that is viewed as being "beneath" knowledge such as a thorough understanding of the writings of Socrates. The catch there is that knowing Socrates isn't getting you off the side of the ro…

You had someone be rude to you because you know how to fix a car? As you said, that's a far easier skill to learn than say programming. However, I have never encountered such an attitude and have lived on both coasts. I think people greatly appreciate skilled mechanics, tradesmen, etc. all over the country. The best can usually charge a premium. That's no different on the coasts. I doubt this will be a popular opinio…

Depends on the circles that you travel in. There are many folks who look down upon any "dirty" work.

It's a pretty common attitude among folks brought up in upper middle class people who end up in professional or other high end jobs. It's a Nouveau riche thing.

As far as heavy religious people are concerned, I've learned in general to not judge and let people demonstrate the capability.

One of the most brilliant guys that I ever met was a ultra-orthodox Hasidic dude. He lived by a strict code, but had an amazing discipline, work ethic and creative problem solving approach. He had great technical ability, but also had a unique way of connecting with people and working out complex people problems.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#166

Post by OJFord »

tome wrote: post #22
OJFord wrote: post #18

Does 'rationalisation' have some strange meaning in this context that I'm unfamiliar with? As far as I'm concerned any view justifying the matter is a rationalisation, left or right wing politically; agree or disagree it's certainly nothing to be upset about being called a rationalisation.

"Rationalisation" has a negative connotation.

Are you British? (I'm picking up on the 's', not sure if you're just quoting me).

It seems others commenting on negative connotation are all American, but personally I would only consider it thus in the form of a question:

    > Oh yes? How do you rationalise that then?
The answer to which is a statement of facts - how it is that I deem whatever 'that' is to be rational.

I would proffer it stems from an assumption that we are rational beings (uh-oh) which may suggest that the very fact it's questionable implies it is incorrect; but we're not rational, people differ - the one thing we all have in common is that we tend to think our own actions rational.

Hence "my rationalisation" is neutral; "your rationalisation" has a negative --ahem-- ex post facto connotation.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#167

Post by druddha »

engi_nerd wrote: post #155
druddha wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being brilliant doesn't necessarily make you a good scientist. Skepticism is a core quality of being a scientist. Believing in something without proof is contrary to being skeptical. Thus, believing in god or Elvis are anti-scientific beliefs.

You make good points. Skepticism is a core quality of being a scientist. But people are remarkably good at erecting fences in their minds. Many of those brilliant people I refer to (I call them brilliant because of their past good work in science) were able to sort of build a fence in their mind around their work and let irrational beliefs take root around it. So they were not true scientists in all aspects of their…

Agreed all around.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#168

Post by xupybd »

druddha wrote: post #130
FussyZeus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less a generalization of everyone who has a degree being incapable of performing that task (I'd imagine a lot would be able to figure it out, it's not complicated) and more the idea that knowledge which is highly useful such as that is viewed as being "beneath" knowledge such as a thorough understanding of the writings of Socrates. The catch there is that knowing Socrates isn't getting you off the side of the ro…

Knowing how to change a flat is not "highly useful" knowledge if you have a AAA membership. The reason changing a flat is considered "beneath" knowledge like understanding Socrates ideas is because it takes time and effort to comprehend complex, abstract topics. Whereas changing a tire is an easy skill to learn for any person. In fact, a scholarly person refusing to learn how to change a flat tire is of benefit to so…

Yeah, the problem is changing a tire will take you about 15 minutes to learn. Less time than it would take waiting for the AAA.

Sure if you don't want to do it, there's nothing wrong with that. But many smart people don't learn simple practical things for the same reason many practical people don't learn intellectual things, they put them in the too hard or too boring basket. You tend to be good at the things you work at, and work at the things you like.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#169

Post by pfh »

hackuser wrote: post #106

Is there any evidence that someone rejected him on that basis? I didn't read the whole article in detail, but it seems like a suspicion with nothing to substantiate it, and a lot of hearsay about what some people told him about the risks.

This could be asked of any form of discrimination.

That he was grilled on his political views by telephone is sufficiently damning.

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