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I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

joseduarte.com

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Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mocking or looking down on people is generally a poor practice. However, it should not surprise someone in the sciences if they are passed over for job opportunities based on their religious beliefs. Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job.

> Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job. Sounds like an unsubstantiated belief to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_...

It's not a belief. I said "...may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job." Providing a list of Christian scientists does not disprove my statement. Obviously being religious doesn't necessarily mean you will perform at a lower level relative to your peers.

But to borrow from Sam Harris, if you met a scientist who openly admitted to believing Elvis is still alive, would you hold the same opinion of them professionally?

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#142

As someone who grew up in a strongly red area and with beliefs in that vein, I know EXACTLY the kind of exclusion that the author is talking about to a painful degree. For anyone who wants to experience it, walk into any Reddit discussion and tell everyone you're a devout Christian and watch the pseudo intellectuals exercise their "openness." And yes it's true I'm far from the most religious person there is, and I st…

Ditto. The left made the personal political, not the right. They're the ones who say we're not allowed to have jobs if we think the wrong thoughts or have the wrong opinions. Even the worst bible-thumping rednecks I know (many, many cousins of both sides of the family) will agree to disagree and behave in a civil manner in the presence of those with whom they disagree. When I was living in San Francisco, I've been li…

[deleted]

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mocking or looking down on people is generally a poor practice. However, it should not surprise someone in the sciences if they are passed over for job opportunities based on their religious beliefs. Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job.

Then I wonder what your reaction is to learning that there is a significant portion [citation needed] of doctors / surgeons that either keep or expand their religious fate as they go through incredibly difficult times in their careers. Some of which would otherwise fail to continue.

No reaction. That something provides you with comfort does not make it true.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those beliefs may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job. Sounds like an unsubstantiated belief to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_...

It's not a belief. I said "...may limit your capacity to effectively perform your job." Providing a list of Christian scientists does not disprove my statement. Obviously being religious doesn't necessarily mean you will perform at a lower level relative to your peers. But to borrow from Sam Harris, if you met a scientist who openly admitted to believing Elvis is still alive, would you hold the same opinion of them p…

Honestly? I've worked with so many absolutely brilliant people who had beliefs in other areas of life that I found baffling and confusing that I would just shrug and file that away as an eccentricity.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#145

As someone who grew up in a strongly red area and with beliefs in that vein, I know EXACTLY the kind of exclusion that the author is talking about to a painful degree. For anyone who wants to experience it, walk into any Reddit discussion and tell everyone you're a devout Christian and watch the pseudo intellectuals exercise their "openness." And yes it's true I'm far from the most religious person there is, and I st…

Ditto. The left made the personal political, not the right. They're the ones who say we're not allowed to have jobs if we think the wrong thoughts or have the wrong opinions. Even the worst bible-thumping rednecks I know (many, many cousins of both sides of the family) will agree to disagree and behave in a civil manner in the presence of those with whom they disagree. When I was living in San Francisco, I've been li…

I think you're color blind on this one.

>Even the worst bible-thumping rednecks I know (many, many cousins of both sides of the family) will agree to disagree and behave in a civil manner in the presence of those with whom they disagree.

You've got to be kidding me. You (and I) are from the land of Jim Crow. My high school's prom was segregated until the late 90's. I worry for the safety of anyone openly gay in my hometown.

Let's just be honest - every classification of people you can think of has their assholes. It's a fact of life, ignore them and move on.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's simply not true, and a drastic oversimplification of American politics. It is in practice quite true even if it is not nominally true, and not only that it is true, but the connection between it and the particular kind of poorly-representative electoral system the US has been established by comparative study across democracies. > There isn't a democracy problem in America Yes, there is, largely to a very poo…

>Yes, there is, largely to a very poorly representative electoral system. Lots of elections doesn't make a well-functioning democracy, that takes elections which produce governments that are effectively representative. Can you explain in what sense American government is not representative? People freely choosing to vote for people that you don't consider to be in their best interests does not make a government unrep…

> Can you explain in what sense American government is not representative?

While 'Winner Takes All' is one way to do representative voting and checking that item off the list, it's one of the worst ways to be representative. CGP Grey has a series of videos on different voting systems and their pros and cons on youtube - start with this one, which goes through the ways 'winner takes all' drives towards worse representation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Another issue that Grey doesn't mention is that electioneering in the US is so constant and expensive, that politicians can rarely afford to speak in-depth to people without money to donate. It's a subtle effect and not really corruption, but a result of having to endlessly chase the dollars in order to electioneer.

The US has a representative system, no-one's arguing against that. But is it satisfactory or unsatisfactory?

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#147

Is there any evidence that someone rejected him on that basis? I didn't read the whole article in detail, but it seems like a suspicion with nothing to substantiate it, and a lot of hearsay about what some people told him about the risks.

At the end of the article, under the header "The original post from July, 2014", he describes his experience. In summary:

1. In 2007, 14 Jewish Members resign from the advisory board of the Carter Center, due to disagreements over statements in Carter's book.

2. OP blogged about this, apparently in support of their statement. (The original original blog post is not linked to)

3. Some undetermined amount of time later (it sounds like at least a year later), OP applies for PHD programs at several schools.

4. When interviewing for a PHD program at one unnamed school, the interviewer explicitly asks about OP's blog post, about OP's political views on Jimmy Carter, and outright admits that the other faculty members oppose OP's admission to the program, on basis of his blog post.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#148
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less a generalization of everyone who has a degree being incapable of performing that task (I'd imagine a lot would be able to figure it out, it's not complicated) and more the idea that knowledge which is highly useful such as that is viewed as being "beneath" knowledge such as a thorough understanding of the writings of Socrates. The catch there is that knowing Socrates isn't getting you off the side of the ro…

You had someone be rude to you because you know how to fix a car? As you said, that's a far easier skill to learn than say programming. However, I have never encountered such an attitude and have lived on both coasts. I think people greatly appreciate skilled mechanics, tradesmen, etc. all over the country. The best can usually charge a premium. That's no different on the coasts. I doubt this will be a popular opinio…

> belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application.

People tend to have separate approaches towards things they believe are well defined vs things they know require faith.

Here's an alternative view point: Take someone who believes in ghosts, they may believe a ghost exists and is quite capable of grabbing them a beer from the fridge, but I doubt that does mean they sit around waiting for it to happen. They may even ask, but in the mean time they will go get their own beer. So I, as an employer, know can rely on that person to get the job done while at the same time that person may discover new rewarding approaches because they are open minded enough to try out-of-the-box ideas. On the other hand I can also always hire a scientific minded person to do the job, but it's less likely they will find opportunity to disrupt anything.

IMHO I think having a mixed group is the best way to go.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's simply not true, and a drastic oversimplification of American politics. It is in practice quite true even if it is not nominally true, and not only that it is true, but the connection between it and the particular kind of poorly-representative electoral system the US has been established by comparative study across democracies. > There isn't a democracy problem in America Yes, there is, largely to a very poo…

>Yes, there is, largely to a very poorly representative electoral system. Lots of elections doesn't make a well-functioning democracy, that takes elections which produce governments that are effectively representative. Can you explain in what sense American government is not representative? People freely choosing to vote for people that you don't consider to be in their best interests does not make a government unrep…

> Can you explain in what sense American government is not representative?

Because it produces outcomes where the distribution of power in government does not follow the distribution in the preferences of the electorate (even the distribution as expressed in voting, which is already distorted by tactical accommodation to the known features of the electoral system.)

This is problem stemming largely from the use of single-member winner-take-all elections by majority/runoff or plurality rules, as is the case for most legislative (and many other) elections, and which is compounded, at the federal level, by distribution of representation disproportionately to population (obviously in the Senate, but granularity results in significant variance in district size for House seats, as well.)

Arend Lijphart's Patterns of Democracy provides pretty good coverage of both the degree to which various modern democracies have representative government, the structural features that are associated with effective representation, and the effects that those variations in effectiveness of representation have.

> People freely choosing to vote for people that you don't consider to be in their best interests does not make a government unrepresentative.

True, but America, nevertheless, among modern democracies has a notably poorly representative government.

> There are a few factors that impact representativeness - gerrymandering and the ineligibility of felons and illegal immigrants, for instance, but all-in-all that impact is pretty minor.

Gerrymandering actually has a lot less impact on representativeness than it gets credit for (but it having any significant effect is a product of single-member, winner-take-all districts, which have a very large effect on representativeness, even outside of gerrymandering.)

> In particular, of course, at a local and state level, those impacts are reduced along with the scale.

No, the scale might be reduced, but the effects of gerrymandering and disenfranchisement, such as they are, are not reduced at local scale (and may actually be exacerbated, depending on the locale -- there are locales above and below the national average for distortion from any of those sources.)

Additionally, there are systems used at local scale (such as multiseat elections on a Vote for N system, with N winners) that are frequently used in local elections that are more hostile to effective representation than single-member, winner-take-all districts.

OTOH, the effects of unequal allocation (at least for legislative districts) are reduced at the state level.

> If Americans have a divisive, gridlocked federal government that produces results nobody likes, that's the natural consequence of a divisive, gridlocked populace that doesn't know what it wants (lower taxes! more social security! balance the budget!), not un-representative government.

Well, no, its a product of a combination of unrepresentative government and a Constitutional system deliberately made to have many veto points, which means if the distortions that effect different institutions work in different directions, the result is gridlock.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I wonder what your reaction is to learning that there is a significant portion [citation needed] of doctors / surgeons that either keep or expand their religious fate as they go through incredibly difficult times in their careers. Some of which would otherwise fail to continue.

No reaction. That something provides you with comfort does not make it true.

If you look at the parent of my comment, you'll see that I wasn't referring to if [what the doctors have faith in] is true or not but rather their faith enables (some of) them to do what they would otherwise not be able to do. Which is contrary to the parent's comment stating that having faith would deem you less capable of fulfilling your job.
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