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Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

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Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#321

Post by youssifa »

heurist wrote: post #246
bluejellybean wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The University and medical infrastructure make Ann Arbor a bizarre bubble of wealth in an otherwise dying state. I've been able to travel into Detroit a few times sense moving to Ann arbor and the difference is truly shocking. Even more so when you consider the distance between the places (about 45 minute drive). I highly recommend checking out Detroit in person if you get the opportunity, pictures just simply do the…

It's not that bizarre, the suburbs surrounding Detroit include some of the wealthiest areas in the nation. Also, downtown Detroit is booming. I visited in July and it was night and day compared to when I previously visited three years ago. I went to school in Ann Arbor and if I wasn't tied to my current location I'd move there in a heartbeat.

Agreed. Anyone who says there is an East/West divide in Michigan... never actually lived in Michigan.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#322

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

StillBored wrote: post #175
andrelaszlo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

A few years ago before the oil boom in west Texas, I was going to run a camera through some of the towns that were off major highways, and compare them with some of the little towns in a Mexico or some other place we consider poor. In many ways the ones in Texas look worse because the population was dying as well, houses with the roof caving in, main streets without a single open business, etc. I'm often surprised by…

They definitely exist, I used to work in this building:

http://www.americantwine.com

Here's another example:

http://www.thecmaninn.com/claremont/about-us/history.aspx

Here's an older paper from the state of RI:

http://www.planning.ri.gov/documents/tp/TP%20150.pdf

So one note from that paper: northern RI alone had 10mil sq ft of vacant mill building space.

That's a lot. It will take a lot of rebuilding to come close to reclaiming all the space in those old buildings.

Also, those old buildings didn't always take into account things like, say, HVAC efficiency. That kind of retrofitting takes money.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#323

Post by webXL »

pm24601 wrote: post #237
yummyfajitas wrote: post #80

So Flint has failed to govern itself - hardly the first time - and now children are poisoned. The city apparently now expects the rest of the country to pick up the tab for the cleanup of their mess. At some point it should become necessary to recognize and acknowledge that self-government has failed and must end. I'd suggest some form of a city death penalty - declare the city dead and give the locals a one-time off…

This was done because of the Republican willingness to let this happen. The children are the victims. Gov. Snyder (R) let this continue because Flint is Democratic. Even now the state is only offering: "has also offered more than $10 million in financial assistance to pay for a temporary switch into the Detroit system while the connection to Lake Huron is being prepared." Questions: 1. Why did the state even let this…

"The City of Flint will also continually test the water being provided to residents."

http://wfnt.com/flint-officially-begins-using-flint-river-wa...

Multiple state and local departments approved of the quality. You might as well ask: why did Democrats and Obama let this happen?

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#324

Post by pm24601 »

webXL wrote: post #323
pm24601 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was done because of the Republican willingness to let this happen. The children are the victims. Gov. Snyder (R) let this continue because Flint is Democratic. Even now the state is only offering: "has also offered more than $10 million in financial assistance to pay for a temporary switch into the Detroit system while the connection to Lake Huron is being prepared." Questions: 1. Why did the state even let this…

"The City of Flint will also continually test the water being provided to residents." http://wfnt.com/flint-officially-begins-using-flint-river-wa... Multiple state and local departments approved of the quality. You might as well ask: why did Democrats and Obama let this happen?

No. Obama is not responsible for every bad thing that happens.

I would rather ask why right-to-lifers let this happen.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#325

Post by fapjacks »

pc86 wrote: post #286
fapjacks wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have welfare and a multitude of social programs design to assist those who need help. We absolutely do not , and it is disingenuous to claim otherwise. Europe has vastly less wealth disparity, and many more social welfare programs that ensure a pretty high degree of social mobility. The United States doesn't hold a candle to most of Europe in this regard. And you know something infuriating? My tax rate is only 1…

> Europe has vastly less wealth disparity How does the income disparity between Flint and San Francisco compare to the income disparity between Luxembourg and Bulgaria? Between Germany and Romania? > My tax rate is only 10% less where I live in the States than what it will be when I move to Sweden. No. The Swedish deduction is $2,690 - in the US it's between $6,300 and $12,600. Not to mention that our federal tax rat…

So, for what it's worth, you're using some pretty useless numbers without context. And they are giving you a pretty distorted picture of the reality (much like the Heritage Foundation). You're looking at some numbers on Wikipedia. I am talking about my experience earning income and paying taxes in both countries. I'm telling you, my taxes right this minute are only about 10% less than my taxes in Sweden. This is the reality. If that makes you mad, make sure you're getting mad at the right people.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#326

Post by pc86 »

fapjacks wrote: post #325
pc86 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe has vastly less wealth disparity How does the income disparity between Flint and San Francisco compare to the income disparity between Luxembourg and Bulgaria? Between Germany and Romania? > My tax rate is only 10% less where I live in the States than what it will be when I move to Sweden. No. The Swedish deduction is $2,690 - in the US it's between $6,300 and $12,600. Not to mention that our federal tax rat…

So, for what it's worth, you're using some pretty useless numbers without context. And they are giving you a pretty distorted picture of the reality (much like the Heritage Foundation). You're looking at some numbers on Wikipedia. I am talking about my experience earning income and paying taxes in both countries. I'm telling you, my taxes right this minute are only about 10% less than my taxes in Sweden. This is the…

I'm not getting mad. I reread my comment and I'm not sure what in there gave you that impression.

Your experience is irrelevant if it directly contradicts facts and math. Until you supply some numbers I'm assuming you're including things that aren't actually taxes or the math is otherwise incorrect.

The state you're in matters a lot.[0] I have a 3% flat state income tax and 6% sales tax on non-necessities (rx drugs, food, clothing, etc are exempt).

VAT is (almost always) higher than sales tax, and many states with sales taxes do not charge it on food, clothing, etc (Sweden charges 12% on these items). Income tax is always higher. Capital gains is always higher, up to double.

[0] http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-individual-income-tax...

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#327

Post by haswell »

tptacek wrote: post #125
haswell wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or many of Chicago's neighborhoods on the south side.

South side Chicago does not look like Flint. The streets are tree-lined, the worst buildings are boarded up, the houses are solid and most of them are brick bungalows. Many tens of thousands of people live there. The worst neighborhoods, like Englewood, are still kept up, and they're bracketed by middle-class neighborhoods like Chatham --- you might not feel comfortable in Chatham, especially if you're from lily-whit…

Fair point. I've lived in Chicago for most of my life, but to be fair I only know about Flint from the articles I've read so I don't have first-hand experience to compare.

Gary definitely seems like a good comparison the more I read about Flint.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#328

Post by fapjacks »

pc86 wrote: post #326
fapjacks wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, for what it's worth, you're using some pretty useless numbers without context. And they are giving you a pretty distorted picture of the reality (much like the Heritage Foundation). You're looking at some numbers on Wikipedia. I am talking about my experience earning income and paying taxes in both countries. I'm telling you, my taxes right this minute are only about 10% less than my taxes in Sweden. This is the…

I'm not getting mad. I reread my comment and I'm not sure what in there gave you that impression. Your experience is irrelevant if it directly contradicts facts and math. Until you supply some numbers I'm assuming you're including things that aren't actually taxes or the math is otherwise incorrect. The state you're in matters a lot.[0] I have a 3% flat state income tax and 6% sales tax on non-necessities (rx drugs,…

What's that saying? One test is worth a thousand expert opinions? Come to Sweden, earn some income, pay some taxes. You can even stay in my guest room.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#329

Post by kdevrou »

maxerickson wrote: post #165
nashashmi wrote: post #78

I just took a look at the Map of Michigan. I realized after zooming into Flint to try to understand where the water was coming from that Michigan has many, many bodies of water scattered all around the place. Plus they are right next to the world's biggest lakes. And yet they never took care of their water supply? The one state with so much fresh water has little regulation on keeping water protected. I keep wonderin…

They are constructing a supply that will tap Lake Huron. Lakes Superior, Michigan and Huron are not especially polluted. The little inland lakes vary, but they end up having a lot of trouble with residential inputs (fertilizer runoff and (historically) sewage).

They already had a supply from Huron before. They disconnected from it about a year ago. Now they are hooked back up to Huron but much of the damage has already been done.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#330

Post by sedachv »

flubert wrote: post #317
sedachv wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Umm, there are no "native towns" in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reserves_in_Can... Most of those have towns in them. > However, we don't tend to have the same level of urban blight and decay as you see in some American cities. There are plenty of run-down areas and derelict industrial objects in and around Montreal. It is true you cannot compare Montreal to select cities like Detroit or New…

>the urban blight there is exclusively a product of systemic racism against blacks in the United States. https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&q=detroit+indus...

Median household income in Detroit: $26,325 83% black (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/26/2622000.html)

Walk a block over to Grosse Point: $89,492 93% white (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grosse_Pointe,_Michigan)

Royal Oak: $52,252 90% white (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Oak,_Michigan)

Livonia: $68,973 92% white (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/26/2649000.html)

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