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Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

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Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#251

Post by merpnderp »

analyst74 wrote: post #166
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm at a loss for words: Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm missing something.

Despite US's overall economical and military dominance, the poor parts of US is really bad. Especially to people from other first-world countries who thought US is similar to their own country. For the Americans who have not traveled abroad, countries in northern Europe, Canada/Australia generally do not have the level of poverty some parts of US suffers.

Abandoned or neglected properties are not a great measure for poverty.

The average after government transfer income of the bottom quintile of households in the US is ~$25,000, which is slightly more than the after government transfers to the bottom quintile of households in the UK. Meanwhile the middle quintile of income earners in the UK is about $20,000 short of the middle US quintile.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#252

Post by flubert »

babygoat wrote: post #218
flubert wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't places like Flint and Detroit pretty much poster children of progressive thought? I think anti-liberal people use them as case studies to attract converts, as in, look what you get if you have one-party Democratic rule for 50 years and strong unions, and other progressive notions.

Where on earth did you get that idea?

I suppose we're making the no-true-progressive argument here? Whether or not that is accurate, anti-progressives use Detroit as an example: https://www.google.com/#q=detroit+progressivism

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#253

Post by yawgmoth »

cylinder wrote: post #245
kbenson wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twice the area, 65% of the population. There are vast swathes of land that are relatively sparsely populated, and also areas that have historically specialized in one industry or another. As those industries wax and wane, so too do the fortunes of many who live in those areas. This is an example of that, where there was a lot of manufacturing (primarily cars) in this area, and as those jobs have moved the populace is…

Yes, the failure is not that a town decayed post-industrialization, it's that the federal government doesn't believe in supporting the people who are left behind after these busts. No re-training funds, no relocation support, housing placement, etc.

It's pretty crazy to think that this will only be a more common occurrence in the future as jobs are eliminated. We should be figuring out how to solve that problem now, not the day after we've suddenly eliminated ten million careers. It's my opinion that we shouldn't try to retrain these people, but begin creating a society that can support lifestyles outside of the labor force. Unfortunately, the how of it is extraordinarily difficult to even consider.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#254

Post by logfromblammo »

prklmn wrote: post #37
shabda wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what hydrogen-heavy means?

The ratio of hydrogen to hydroxide is higher than it normally is. Water naturally dissociates into hydrogen and hydroxide ever so slightly in equal amounts under neutral conditions.

The auto-dissociation constant Kw is 10^-14 mol^2 L^-2.

That means that concentration of hydronium [H3O+] ion multiplied by the concentration of hydroxide [OH-] ion is equal to the constant. In pure water, there are no other ions to change the balance, so you get 2 H2O H3O+ + OH-, and each concentration is the square root of the dissociation constant.

So 10^-7 mol/L H3O+ and 10^-7 mol/L OH-. The abbreviation "pH" stands for "power hydrogen", and is the negative log10 of the H3O+ concentration. 10^-7 mol/L H3O+ is pH 7, which is neutral. There is also a lesser-known term pOH, which is pretty much pOH + pH = 14 under normal conditions.

But that water doesn't stay perfectly neutral for long. CO2 from the atmosphere dissolves into it, using

  CO2(g)  CO2(aq)                           K_CO2 = 2.0e-3, P_CO2 = 3.6e-4
  CO2(aq) + H2O(l)  H2CO3(aq)               K     = 1.3e-3
  H2CO3(aq) + H2O(l)  H3O+(aq) + HCO3-(aq)  Ka1   = 2.0e-4
  HCO3-(aq) + H2O(l)  H3O+(aq) + CO3--(aq)  Ka2   = 4.7e-11
Solving the equilibrium gives you a pH of 5.65 (10^-5.65 mol/L H3O+).

Some natural groundwater contains other dissolved minerals, including carbonates (limestone is CaCO3), which pushes the CO2 equilibrium in the other direction, making water more basic (higher pH).

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#255

Post by MAGZine »

maratd wrote: post #203
ionised wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Based on what? It's fundamentalist opposition to welfare and social programs and universal healthcare even when people are struggling and suffering can give that impression. > The US is far more diverse and mixed than the EU What are you basing that on? The EU is over 50 countries with their own languages and customs and politics.

> It's fundamentalist opposition to welfare and social programs and universal healthcare We have welfare and a multitude of social programs design to assist those who need help. You can walk into any emergency room in the country and receive whatever care you need even without insurance or payment on-hand . Mind you, the government provides insurance to the poor and elderly. It has been this way for a very long time.…

So the millions of students with massive amounts of student debt or people losing their homes due to injury or disease don't need help?

Anyhow, the point about rich and poor living side by side happens anywhere where there is gentrification. Some communities, too. I promise you that in some islands in greece there are beggars living side by side to people loading 50" plasmas onto donkeys

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#256

Post by thrownaway2424 »

dalke wrote: post #197
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm at a loss for words: Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm missing something.

I am a US citizen who moved to Sweden. I've done a decent amount of cycling across the Swedish countryside, and think I can explain. The sights in these photos that you (and I, who grew up in Florida) think are pretty common, are quite rare in Sweden. That is, it's rare to find houses with boarded up windows, or missing part of its siding, or burnt down and in a state of decay. Suburban areas are almost all immaculat…

I don't know if it's terribly useful to compare the entire US with Sweden. Sweden is about as populous as the Bay Area. If you're going to make comparisons with the worst places in the US, you should compare with the worst place in Europe. Drop a street view guy in the middle of Donetsk and have a look around.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#257

Post by thrownaway2424 »

Maarten88 wrote: post #229
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Except you can do that in Sweden because it has 9 million people and a tiny inhabited area in comparison.

If Sweden can afford it, the US can as well. It's a matter of priorities.

It's also a matter of drawing boundaries. It doesn't make any more sense to complain that Sweden is nicer than Flint, than it would to make the same complaint about Seattle or Philadephia. Or, taking the converse, it makes as much sense to blame Swedes for the state of urban decay in Belarus.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#258

Post by fapjacks »

andrelaszlo wrote: post #77
rickdale wrote: post #39

I'm glad to see this on HN. Flint is often a forgot about place in the world. I grew up there and now live outside of Flint. My dad was murdered there. But I always think Flint is prime for opportunity. The people need basic essentials, water, food, shelter. But the infrastructure to build factories is there. Power, train lines, the whole deal. It's really a shame. The sad part is, the people are still hell bent on s…

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

I am married to a Swede, and we had our wedding on my wife's family farm. My family came out for the wedding, and both my parents and grandmother had never been outside of the country (USA) before. It was a bit awkward that most of my relatives kept remarking "it is so clean here" whenever we went to a new place. Some of my wife's family has never been to the States, and so now they think the US is just a dirty craphole because of those remarks. They're not so wrong, though. Cities in the US have a special kind of indescribable grime and smell. Of course few places are as bad as they are in Flint, but there is definitely urban decay in many places.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#259

Post by 91bananas »

hellofunk wrote: post #88
artlogic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't as surprising as you might think. Roger and Me isn't a documentary, it's an editorial. It's actually used in film classes as an example of creative editing to make a point. I'm not saying that Flint isn't bad, but Moore did pretty much everything he could to make it look as bad as possible. The feeling of most folks from Flint I've spoken to is that Moore made a disingenuous "documentary" about Flint not t…

Totally agree. Michael Moore even won an oscar for documentary filmmaking, but he uses some pretty crafty and biased techniques to make his point. All documentaries tend to have the point of view of their filmmaker, but they often try to expose both sides of the coin in the process and at least present the evidence in a way the audience can judge on their own (at least the good films do this). Michael Moore is very s…

> but they often try to expose both sides of the coin in the process and at least present the evidence in a way the audience can judge on their own

Having seen it, and having read a lot of this stuff...I'm genuinely curious what the other side of the coin was/should have been in this film?

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#260

Post by bpicolo »

heurist wrote: post #246
bluejellybean wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The University and medical infrastructure make Ann Arbor a bizarre bubble of wealth in an otherwise dying state. I've been able to travel into Detroit a few times sense moving to Ann arbor and the difference is truly shocking. Even more so when you consider the distance between the places (about 45 minute drive). I highly recommend checking out Detroit in person if you get the opportunity, pictures just simply do the…

It's not that bizarre, the suburbs surrounding Detroit include some of the wealthiest areas in the nation. Also, downtown Detroit is booming. I visited in July and it was night and day compared to when I previously visited three years ago. I went to school in Ann Arbor and if I wasn't tied to my current location I'd move there in a heartbeat.

Ditto. I'm hoping to move back at some point
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