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Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 332 posts

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#31
post #7
post #5

The article failed to explain how the river got so toxic in the first place.

The article also fails to explain what kind of safety checks are normally done on US drinking water, and why those tests failed in Flint.

There's no such thing as "US drinking water".

I live on a farm where my water source is a well. I live next to a subdivision where all the residents are on a single shared well. That subdivision is next to a city which draws its water from a local lake. That city borders another city which has a system of wells to draw from the local aquifer. In our local region is another city which draws from a large river. About 2 hours away is the city of Chicago which draws from Lake Michigan.

Each of those water systems operates independently. Each local body is responsible for determining the quality of their source and ameliorates it as needed. You can imagine that as you progress up the chain from my house to Chicago, this same process gets more and more sophisticated, but the basic process is the same.

A city the size of Flint, even with their recent financial trouble, certainly has a water department which knows what the quality of the water it's putting out is. As for culpability, whatever else you may have heard about the US, we do hold people accountable when they knowingly put the public health at risk. In fact, the article even mentions that Flint's previous mayor was ousted over this very issue.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#32
post #13
post #5

The article failed to explain how the river got so toxic in the first place.

Problem is the pipes, not the river per se. When they switched water, they didn't add an anti corrosive agent: http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/11/13/af...

>> Problem is the pipes, not the river per se. When they switched water, they didn't add an anti corrosive agent

Which means there is now corrosion in a lot of old lead pipes, which means the lead will continue to get into the water for a while. IIRC at least a few months after they switched back and possibly longer.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#33
The one thing I don't see is the lead levels of the water supply. Doesn't the EPA have limits on that and isn't it an easy thing to test?

It is true that different water supplies will have different levels of contaminants (lead, arsenic, etc) but can all be within EPA limits. Switching to a water supply with a higher level of contamination will increase exposure. The medical study seems to look at the percentage of children below 5g/dL before and after the switch. It goes from 2% to 4%. So with the old water supply, a certain percentage of children were already being exposed to elevated levels of lead. Switching to a water source with higher lead levels will push more children who are being exposed to lead through other sources to above the 5g/dL mark. However, this would seem to indicate that the primary source of lead for these children above 5g/dL is something other than the water.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#34
post #24

What led to this particular situation was apparently rate hikes in the Detroit water system, which caused Flint to switch to using the Flint river as their water source last year. Beyond that, water systems all over the country are in bad shape. Because water rates are subject to public control, they are far too low and there is a huge under-investment in water systems: http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/dr…

"Because water rates are subject to public control, they are far too low and there is a huge under-investment in water." One does not necessarily follow from the other as water infrastructure can be subsidized through public investment that doesn't come strictly from billing for water.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#35
post #24

What led to this particular situation was apparently rate hikes in the Detroit water system, which caused Flint to switch to using the Flint river as their water source last year. Beyond that, water systems all over the country are in bad shape. Because water rates are subject to public control, they are far too low and there is a huge under-investment in water systems: http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/dr…

Subtly attempts to frame the issue as public controlled water.

A counterpoint might be that the companies with a vested interest in privitising water supplies have lobbied to choke out the public systems of funding.

Perhaps instead of cutting deplorable tax breaks for big business, it would be more prudent to augment the public funds to prevent your citizens from getting lead poisoning?

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/jan/30/wa...

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#36

The one thing I don't see is the lead levels of the water supply. Doesn't the EPA have limits on that and isn't it an easy thing to test? It is true that different water supplies will have different levels of contaminants (lead, arsenic, etc) but can all be within EPA limits. Switching to a water supply with a higher level of contamination will increase exposure. The medical study seems to look at the percentage of c…

(sorry, 5ug/dL, the study listed it as 5g/dL in a few places)

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#37
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Distillation should remove any heavy metal elements. It's not ideal to consume long term, as it removes most useful minerals and results in a hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming lead.

Can you explain what hydrogen-heavy means?

The ratio of hydrogen to hydroxide is higher than it normally is. Water naturally dissociates into hydrogen and hydroxide ever so slightly in equal amounts under neutral conditions.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#38

I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead. The ridiculous political bun-fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease.

>> I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead.

In this case it's a poor area, and IIRC children of welfare recipients are required to have certain tests every year or two. So at some point all they had to do was look at existing data to see the lead levels in the kids went up dramatically after the change. Easiest study ever.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#39
I'm glad to see this on HN. Flint is often a forgot about place in the world. I grew up there and now live outside of Flint. My dad was murdered there.

But I always think Flint is prime for opportunity. The people need basic essentials, water, food, shelter. But the infrastructure to build factories is there. Power, train lines, the whole deal. It's really a shame. The sad part is, the people are still hell bent on supporting the companies that destroyed the town. Michigan in general is like this, its why they don't allow Tesla vehicle sales.

Growing up my family owned a junkyard and the Flint river ran behind it. It was disgusting. Some of the guys would wade through it on their way two and from work. It was a shortcut, but you had to be a true animal to go that route.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#40

The one thing I don't see is the lead levels of the water supply. Doesn't the EPA have limits on that and isn't it an easy thing to test? It is true that different water supplies will have different levels of contaminants (lead, arsenic, etc) but can all be within EPA limits. Switching to a water supply with a higher level of contamination will increase exposure. The medical study seems to look at the percentage of c…

Hmm...reading further the problem doesn't seem to be one handled well by EPA standards. The new water supply is more corrosive than the old water supply, so in poorer neighborhoods with lead piping, more lead (sometimes significantly) is being leeched from the pipes than before.
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