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Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

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Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#231

Post by logicalmind »

tptacek wrote: post #125
haswell wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or many of Chicago's neighborhoods on the south side.

South side Chicago does not look like Flint. The streets are tree-lined, the worst buildings are boarded up, the houses are solid and most of them are brick bungalows. Many tens of thousands of people live there. The worst neighborhoods, like Englewood, are still kept up, and they're bracketed by middle-class neighborhoods like Chatham --- you might not feel comfortable in Chatham, especially if you're from lily-whit…

I assume you are strictly referring to within the city limits. If you include the burbs, then check out Robbins: https://goo.gl/maps/ompv1Df5aqT2

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#232

Post by rvense »

henrikschroder wrote: post #202
paulddraper wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm at a loss for words > To me, there's something really heartbreaking about abandoned and decaying houses. You're at a lost for words because of some old houses? At least there aren't gangs roaming the capital, looting, killing, and burning for days. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328952/Sweden-riots... I'm not saying either US or Sweden is a nightmare; just that every place has its uglier side. If you'…

> gangs roaming the capital, looting, killing, and burning That's quite the hyperbole compared to what actually happened.

Are you implying that the Daily Mail would exagerate something involving immigrants in Sweden? That's preposterous. /s

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#233

Post by gilbetron »

kbenson wrote: post #127
scott_karana wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 , the first one I clicked, there is decay and overgrowth everywhere. The death of the city's economy is completely evident in that view alone...

Because a building burned down? It would be nice if they fenced it off, so it shows a lack of resources, but I'm not sure that view really indicates what you say it does.

Flint and Detroit have huge sections of the city like this. It isn't just a street or two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKQSPJWK5w0

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#234

Post by ZoeZoeBee »

babygoat wrote: post #218
flubert wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't places like Flint and Detroit pretty much poster children of progressive thought? I think anti-liberal people use them as case studies to attract converts, as in, look what you get if you have one-party Democratic rule for 50 years and strong unions, and other progressive notions.

Where on earth did you get that idea?

Voting Records. Do you believe something else?

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#235

Post by flubert »

fein wrote: post #227
flubert wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because of that one house that needs a paint job and some upkeep? Interesting that everyone appears to be able to afford satellite TV. You can surely find rougher neighborhoods than that.

That was one house out of at least 4 that are abandoned on that street alone. Just clicking around on streetview shows you some pretty dismal images in the area.

That white house with the black Jeep out front? I don't think that one is abandoned. Or at least I'd strongly suspect that there are people living there. I don't see graffiti, or broken windows, or garbage strewn everywhere. The cars in the neighborhood seem to be newer and clean. This has the beginnings of an interesting HN poll. Put up a link like like that, and ask:

"Take a look at this neighborhood, and tell us what you see"

    1.) A horrible slum that is a disgrace and
        embarrassment to the U.S.  It is an outrage that
        anyone would have to live in conditions like that
        in the third millennium.
    2.) A quaint lower-income neighborhood.
    3.) Doesn't seem that bad, not much different in 
        character from where I grew up.
    4.) Drug-dealers and prostitutes gotta live somewhere.
    5.) I see a place with home-owners and mortgage
        holders, living the American Dream.
    6.) We are doing a hell of a job as a society, if this
        is supposedly the worst of the worst.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#236

Post by Nelson69 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #80

So Flint has failed to govern itself - hardly the first time - and now children are poisoned. The city apparently now expects the rest of the country to pick up the tab for the cleanup of their mess. At some point it should become necessary to recognize and acknowledge that self-government has failed and must end. I'd suggest some form of a city death penalty - declare the city dead and give the locals a one-time off…

What are some of the other doomed cities you're talking about? And with what metrics?

I don't disagree with you that there are troubled towns and cities but it seems really difficult to decide when it's beyond salvage or even what that means.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#237

Post by pm24601 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #80

So Flint has failed to govern itself - hardly the first time - and now children are poisoned. The city apparently now expects the rest of the country to pick up the tab for the cleanup of their mess. At some point it should become necessary to recognize and acknowledge that self-government has failed and must end. I'd suggest some form of a city death penalty - declare the city dead and give the locals a one-time off…

This was done because of the Republican willingness to let this happen. The children are the victims. Gov. Snyder (R) let this continue because Flint is Democratic.

Even now the state is only offering:

"has also offered more than $10 million in financial assistance to pay for a temporary switch into the Detroit system while the connection to Lake Huron is being prepared."

Questions:

1. Why did the state even let this happen?

2. Why is the state only offering "financial aid" when it be paying for the switch - since the state failed Flint when it permitted the use of Flint River water in the first place?

3. Why did the citizens have to protest at all? Why wasn't the state proactively step in?

4. Why isn't the state providing emergency water supplies immediately?

These are Republican "values" at work.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#238

Post by scott_karana »

kbenson wrote: post #207
scott_karana wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's normal looking in the rust belt, but it's unfamiliar looking to me as well. (Can't speak for the Swede, but I suspect they're surprised for similar reasons) There is: 1) A burned down building (which has been in that state for some time) 2) Boarded up storefronts 3) Plants growing over the unused fences, which themselves are starting to fall over 4) The lots behind the fences look to have been empty for…

I'm not saying it doesn't show signs of a neglected area, I just think you're reading too much into certain aspects which may be explained through the area in which the picture was taken. I'm not sure how long the building has been in that state, but I would imagine less than a year from the vegetation, but that's hard to judge if it all dies in winter. Then again, vegetation usually grows very quickly in those areas…

I could absolutely be wrong about some of those! As I said, I'm not familiar with the Rust Belt. My view is almost exclusively superficial.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#239

Post by anon1385 »

mason240 wrote: post #75
anon1385 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The toxicity of lead is actually a longstanding political argument in the US. Lobbying against lead regulation was one of the original motivations for the development of modern american libertarianism. Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned. When the topic of lead comes up on HN you often get comm…

>The ridiculous political bun-fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease. Thanks for providing an example of the political toxicity the OP was talking about.

If you want to understand why the topic of lead brings out a lot of political comments when it should be something fairly uncontentious then you need to understand the history.

Also I make no apologies for calling out organisations that literally lobbied to kill people.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#240

Post by pm24601 »

flubert wrote: post #104
ionforce wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what excuse the anti-liberals come up with once their children are diagnosed with lead.

Aren't places like Flint and Detroit pretty much poster children of progressive thought? I think anti-liberal people use them as case studies to attract converts, as in, look what you get if you have one-party Democratic rule for 50 years and strong unions, and other progressive notions.

Flint has been devastated like Detroit by Republican governors and Republican* trade policies that export jobs.

* And unfortunately NAFTA ( signed by Clinton )

Thank god Obama saved the automobile industry in 2009

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