Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 332 posts

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#71

Post by rayiner »

cmiles74 wrote: post #67
rayiner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What big businesses are you talking about? Water in almost every U.S. city is provided by a municipal utility. E.g. in Flint, it's the Utilities Department: https://www.cityofflint.com/public-works/water-service-cente... . Water rates are set by the city, and are just too low to cover modernization of the systems. Both the ASCE and the EPA have reported that investment in water systems is a fraction of what is requir…

I think they are referring to the big businesses that are either consuming the water supply or polluting the water supply.

Do you even know if "big businesses" are even a major consumer of water in Flint? In a city (as opposed to an agricultural area), residential users are probably the primary water users. In any case, even if that were true, how is that relevant to the city charging too low a price for water to be able to replace aging lead pipes?

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#72

Post by chestervonwinch »

rickdale wrote: post #39

I'm glad to see this on HN. Flint is often a forgot about place in the world. I grew up there and now live outside of Flint. My dad was murdered there. But I always think Flint is prime for opportunity. The people need basic essentials, water, food, shelter. But the infrastructure to build factories is there. Power, train lines, the whole deal. It's really a shame. The sad part is, the people are still hell bent on s…

> The sad part is, the people are still hell bent on supporting the companies that destroyed the town. Michigan in general is like this, its why they don't allow Tesla vehicle sales.

I grew up outside of Flint, and I agree. There's this weird cognitive dissonance going on there because these companies supported so many families for so long. There's a sort of one-way loyalty going on. I knew so many friends and family that worked in the auto industry for years, and were all laid off when it went downhill years back. I'm talking about lots of people with nothing more than a high school diploma (or not even) -- jobless now at 30 or 40. Yet for some reason there's still this loyalty to GM, etc... that big auto is gonna turn things around and come back to save the day.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#73

Post by jonknee »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #46
rickdale wrote: post #39

I'm glad to see this on HN. Flint is often a forgot about place in the world. I grew up there and now live outside of Flint. My dad was murdered there. But I always think Flint is prime for opportunity. The people need basic essentials, water, food, shelter. But the infrastructure to build factories is there. Power, train lines, the whole deal. It's really a shame. The sad part is, the people are still hell bent on s…

Really? I was just thinking the other day that I hear about Flint, Michigan all the time. Relatively speaking at least. It's not even in the top 300 for city size yet I hear about it relatively often. Certainly more than Las Cruces, New Mexico. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

It's frequently referred to as an example of a wasteland, but not referred to as a place of possibility.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#75

Post by mason240 »

anon1385 wrote: post #27
EliRivers wrote: post #6

I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead. The ridiculous political bun-fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease.

The toxicity of lead is actually a longstanding political argument in the US. Lobbying against lead regulation was one of the original motivations for the development of modern american libertarianism. Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned. When the topic of lead comes up on HN you often get comm…

>The ridiculous political bun-fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease.

Thanks for providing an example of the political toxicity the OP was talking about.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#76

Post by rayiner »

Spooky23 wrote: post #65
rayiner wrote: post #24

What led to this particular situation was apparently rate hikes in the Detroit water system, which caused Flint to switch to using the Flint river as their water source last year. Beyond that, water systems all over the country are in bad shape. Because water rates are subject to public control, they are far too low and there is a huge under-investment in water systems: http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/dr…

That's really a ridiculous argument. The lifespan of drinking water system infrastructure is anywhere from 50-100 years -- far to long to pay as you go or accumulate money to pay for repairs later. The way you fix infrastructure is with bonds, which the public owned entity has a major advantage in doing, as it has a tax base to secure the bond as well as tax exempt status. The other infrastructure issue is that older…

The amount of revenue coming into the water department doesn't matter for getting financing?

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#77

Post by andrelaszlo »

rickdale wrote: post #39

I'm glad to see this on HN. Flint is often a forgot about place in the world. I grew up there and now live outside of Flint. My dad was murdered there. But I always think Flint is prime for opportunity. The people need basic essentials, water, food, shelter. But the infrastructure to build factories is there. Power, train lines, the whole deal. It's really a shame. The sad part is, the people are still hell bent on s…

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words:

https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2

https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2

https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2

https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32

https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92

https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?)

https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut

https://goo.gl/maps/8Wx2gQ6z8up

https://goo.gl/maps/nAY5Kb73PkM2

https://goo.gl/maps/kTqzqGXQqmF2

https://goo.gl/maps/xWkvXRdACWR2

As a Swede, I guess I didn't really realize how bad things really got in parts of the US. The last 50 years is just one crisis after another for this place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint%2C_Michigan#History

To me, there's something really heartbreaking about abandoned and decaying houses. It's all too easy to imagine the hopes and dreams that didn't play out they way they should have.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#78

Post by nashashmi »

I just took a look at the Map of Michigan. I realized after zooming into Flint to try to understand where the water was coming from that Michigan has many, many bodies of water scattered all around the place. Plus they are right next to the world's biggest lakes.

And yet they never took care of their water supply? The one state with so much fresh water has little regulation on keeping water protected.

I keep wondering why its been prophecied that the world in the end will wage war over water, not oil. And now I am beginning to understand.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#80

Post by yummyfajitas »

So Flint has failed to govern itself - hardly the first time - and now children are poisoned. The city apparently now expects the rest of the country to pick up the tab for the cleanup of their mess.

At some point it should become necessary to recognize and acknowledge that self-government has failed and must end. I'd suggest some form of a city death penalty - declare the city dead and give the locals a one-time offer of relocation assistance to an approved list of better places. The city government, and anyone who remains, are officially on their own.

We've known Flint (and many similar cities) are doomed for decades. Why do we keep them alive as zombies rather than just help the humans and let the municipalities die?

Post reply on HN