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Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#211

Post by kawera »

dang wrote: post #204
kawera wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deeply regret posting this article. Somehow I thought it was interesting and in tune with many other articles we've discussed this week but seeing what happened here, oh my... I'm really sorry, won't happen again.

FWIW, the story has fallen off the front page because (a) users flagged it and (b) moderators have downweighted it, as we typically do when a story is either a piler-on or a riler-upper or both.

Daniel, is it possible to subtract those points from my account? I didn't post it for upvotes.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#212

Post by rezashirazian »

0xFFC wrote: post #64
she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

As Iranian (I am commenting from Tehran) I completely approve your point of view.I even explained in long comment in this post(you can find it in bottom).Iranian regime nightmare is liberal people( because they are the most effective opposition to current regime, all of other opposition's dismantled by regime very easily they don't even exist in society). you know why? Because they are only threat to nature of this u…

I always thought Iranians saw Islam as a tradition, not so much a defining aspect of their identity.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#213

Post by dang »

tptacek wrote: post #205
dang wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, the story has fallen off the front page because (a) users flagged it and (b) moderators have downweighted it, as we typically do when a story is either a piler-on or a riler-upper or both.

Unfortunately, by the time the admins notice that there's a riler- upper - piler- onner, a lot of the damage is done. Look at how many points and comments this story has.

I'm not persuaded that it would work to control it more tightly. It's always been the way HN works that these things surge up and then get flagged or weighted down. There's a kind of equilibrium in there that we're loth to mess with; asking for too much would be a mistake.

This concern is perennial. I recall having the same debate many times with you and davidw years before I ever worked on HN. And I am happy to report that my view has shifted a lot closer to the two of yours since then! But is there reason to believe this has deteriorated recently? An external provocation (ISIS and Paris attacks) has certainly spiked, as happens quarterly or so, but I don't see that the HN-community-system is markedly different.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#214

Post by calbear81 »

pearjuice wrote: post #80
happyscrappy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hypocrisy justifies spraying random Frenchmen with machine guns? Think harder.

The thing is that most people condemn the "spraying random Frenchmen with machine guns", but applaud when the day after France carpet bombs Raqqa, a Syrian city with a population of over 200000 with the civilians being trapped in the oppression of ISIS. Apparently, then the death of dozens of innocent civilians which had no choice other than getting trapped between bombs falling from the sky or ISIS militants control…

From what I read, it seemed like the French were not given the option to carpet bomb Raqqa but instead got to fulfill a long list of kill orders on strategic targets instead of the usual method of doling them out to different allies to take care of.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#215

Post by tptacek »

kawera wrote: post #207
tptacek wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, by the time the admins notice that there's a riler- upper - piler- onner, a lot of the damage is done. Look at how many points and comments this story has.

By the time I noticed what happened it was too late and the "delete" menu had disappeared. I didn't post it to accumulate points and certainly wouldn't mind if they were subtracted from my account.

Not your fault! Stop worrying about it! Post more things!

I thought the article was interesting too. I just don't like what HN did with it.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#216

Post by azth »

raverbashing wrote: post #31
llamataboot wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Islam is not threatening the West's existence.

No, of course not We just have "Sharia Law" areas in the UK, honour killings in Canada, people getting shot in France and elsewhere because of drawings, etc And if someone disagrees I'd like to hear your opinion.

The phrase "Shariah Law" keeps being thrown around like by people who don't know what it means to spread FUD.

Honor killings are prohibited Islamically.

Here is an example of ISIS being denounced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ2HlIYRvCM

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#217

Post by azth »

vox_mollis wrote: post #74
criley2 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also have Christians murdering abortion doctors, setting bombs and fires at clinics, Christian Sovereign Citizens murdering police on a near monthly basis, advocating for a theocracy in America (God above Country or Establishment of a national religion), advocation of Christian Law above secular law, etc, and we manage to keep our society from becoming a theocracy. Frankly, if a few evangelical Muslims are capable…

Well the obvious answer here is that all Abrahamic religions are suspect for breeding violence. But you can't say that in polite company for fear of the ADL, et. al.

No, it is not "obvious". Jumping to conclusions like this does not help anyone.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#218

Post by dang »

kawera wrote: post #211
dang wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, the story has fallen off the front page because (a) users flagged it and (b) moderators have downweighted it, as we typically do when a story is either a piler-on or a riler-upper or both.

Daniel, is it possible to subtract those points from my account? I didn't post it for upvotes.

No because it's compensation for any good things you posted that got ignored. Like tptacek said, just post more good things!

You didn't do anything wrong btw. HN reacts how it reacts. Having a wide range of stimuli is important; a few lead to madness, but it wears off.

The thing to optimize for is story diversity, because that's what serves the site goal of intellectual curiosity. If you (or anyone) really want to up your game of contributing to HN, scour the Internet for out-of-the-way things that readers here haven't heard of and will get all perky and curious in response to. Those are the best posts and there are never enough of them.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#219

Post by rezashirazian »

guelo wrote: post #179
nickff wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a Western government, Iran's international relations are the problem.[1] The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq; nor does it console the families of the hundreds (if not thousands) of Israeli civilians killed by (Iranian government supported) Hamas. State support for the Assad regim…

There's also the Israel tail wagging the dog issue. Israel hates Iran so we hate Iran. Israel loves Sunni dictatorships in Egypt and Saudi Arabia so we love Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

I don't think Israel hates Iran or Iran hates Israel. Both, regardless of their differences, behave logically.

I believe they find in each other an enemy that helps with their narrative, without the detriment of having to deal with the danger of an erratic or unreasonable enemy.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#220

Post by azth »

0xFFC wrote: post #167
myth_buster wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get this is an emotional response and somewhere 3/4th in, it turns into drivel with Texas women and such. I do believe violence begets more violence. Further I believe the complexity is something akin to the butterfly effect where doing something can cascade into something big in half a century. Take for example the drone strikes. The kids who manage to live through it would have have pent-up animosity towards the…

Maybe you don't know Islam as much as I do , but at the very end , it is only about sex . When you look at it in that perspective you can understand ruining their culture to show them their whole religion was a lie is the best approach. about bad foreign policy I completely agree.And that was my whole point . stop killing people and overthrowing regime in Islamic areas and change your policy to show them new way of l…

> Maybe you don't know Islam as much as I do , but at the very end , it is only about sex

I don't know what you were taught in Iran, but this is 100% false.

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